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“Police evacuate building after unidentified suspicious object reported” Vs “People killed when police treat bomb as probably harmless object” Retroactively

by olliej 4y ago

“Police evacuate building after unidentified suspicious object reported” Vs “People killed when police treat bomb as probably harmless object” Retroactively one might say that’s obvious, right? But what is the alternative here but to be cautious?

rasz 4y ago
This is false equivalence. What should have happened is someone with two brain cells, and we know Police specifically filters those candidates out (https://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836 https://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/st...), used google images to identify unknown object in a couple of minutes.
- olliej 4y ago
  No, evacuating costs a few minutes and has negligible cost. Verifying some essentially random object is not a bomb takes time as well. The cost/benefit ratio is very clearly - evacuate while you identify the random object. And yeah police aren't the necessarily the brightest, but I'd love to know how I look at a device and google that "device that looks like two rolls of tape joined by metal and electronics" gave me many many results, none of which were any kind of belt tensioner.
  - rasz 4y ago
    It doesnt look like a bomb, unless everything pipe shaped is a bomb to you. It maybe looks like some sort of hand grenade due to pin, and those dont blow up on their own. It was typical ignorant police doing police things. Lets not forget moonites scare, and Boston airport Star Simpson drama with MIT selling her out by issuing this garbage of a statement: “MIT is cooperating fully with the State Police in the investigation of an incident at Logan Airport this morning involving Star Simpson, a sophomore at MIT. As reported to us by authorities, Ms. Simpson's actions were reckless and understandably created alarm at the airport.”
    - olliej 4y ago
      I'm sorry in what world does that not look almost identical to the grenades you see in movies, tv, and museums? Because I am looking at the picture in that article, and what I see there looks like a grenade - it even appears to have a pin. What world do you live in which if you did not already know that exact piece of hardware, not reporting it would be the correct course of action? If I saw that object anywhere outside a mechanics garage - a place where random equipment and car parts I can't identify often exist - I would also report that to police as "hey, I just came across this object that looks more or less exactly like a grenade". In addition to all this, the messaging to people is literally "if you see something, say something". They saw something that not only did they not recognize, they also saw that it looked like a grenade. They called the police, the police saw an object - I'm guessing at a distance - that again, looked like a grenade, then no one came forward to say "oh hey, that grenade looking thing is a safe device that belongs to me". So they evacuated it so explosives professionals with the gear to handle it actually being a bomb could look at the - again, grenade looking object - was a grenade or something inert. Also for whoever designed that, a good rule of thumb is to ensure that things that are not grenades or explosive devices, do not look almost identical to a grenade or an tv bomb.
      - olliej 4y ago
        Oh, and to be absolutely clear, I agree with @rasz that police are assholes and intentionally arrange themselves to largely be a gang without consequences, but in this case they clearly made the correct call. Stopped clocks, etc.
      - rasz 4y ago
        >grenades you see in movies Yes, it does look like a movie prop, aka not real. >What world do you live in which if you did not already know that exact piece of hardware, not reporting it would be the correct course of action? Report all you like, but 1 take a picture, 2 upload to image search engine. Here you go, I cropped the table so we dont get exact match to the Utah story: https://i.imgur.com/9l9gGBp.png https://i.imgur.com/9l9gGBp.png https://yandex.com/images/search?rpt=imageview&url=https%3A%2F%2Favatars.mds.yandex.net%2Fget-images-cbir%2F105757%2FtkuT6Objz6yvm7Oh_00wyA5476%2Forig&cbir_id=105757%2FtkuT6Objz6yvm7Oh_00wyA5476 https://yandex.com/images/search?rpt=imageview&url=https%3A%... first result exact match! https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailv2&iss=sbi&form=SBIIDP&sbisrc=UrlPaste&q=imgurl:https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F9l9gGBp.png&idpbck=1&selectedindex=0&id=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F9l9gGBp.png&ccid=N%2BSdkCS4&mediaurl=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F9l9gGBp.png&exph=524&expw=330&vt=2&sim=1 https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailv2&iss=sbi&for... 5th result exact match! Do you now understand how stupid the cop who did this was? No? Does this https://www.salon.com/2007/09/21/star_simpson/ https://www.salon.com/2007/09/21/star_simpson/ look like a bomb? a real bomb, not the movie prop kind?

by olliej 4y ago

rasz 4y ago

This is false equivalence. What should have happened is someone with two brain cells, and we know Police specifically filters those candidates out (https://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836 https://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/st...), used google images to identify unknown object in a couple of minutes.

olliej 4y ago
No, evacuating costs a few minutes and has negligible cost. Verifying some essentially random object is not a bomb takes time as well. The cost/benefit ratio is very clearly - evacuate while you identify the random object. And yeah police aren't the necessarily the brightest, but I'd love to know how I look at a device and google that "device that looks like two rolls of tape joined by metal and electronics" gave me many many results, none of which were any kind of belt tensioner.
- rasz 4y ago
  It doesnt look like a bomb, unless everything pipe shaped is a bomb to you. It maybe looks like some sort of hand grenade due to pin, and those dont blow up on their own. It was typical ignorant police doing police things. Lets not forget moonites scare, and Boston airport Star Simpson drama with MIT selling her out by issuing this garbage of a statement: “MIT is cooperating fully with the State Police in the investigation of an incident at Logan Airport this morning involving Star Simpson, a sophomore at MIT. As reported to us by authorities, Ms. Simpson's actions were reckless and understandably created alarm at the airport.”
  - olliej 4y ago
    I'm sorry in what world does that not look almost identical to the grenades you see in movies, tv, and museums? Because I am looking at the picture in that article, and what I see there looks like a grenade - it even appears to have a pin. What world do you live in which if you did not already know that exact piece of hardware, not reporting it would be the correct course of action? If I saw that object anywhere outside a mechanics garage - a place where random equipment and car parts I can't identify often exist - I would also report that to police as "hey, I just came across this object that looks more or less exactly like a grenade". In addition to all this, the messaging to people is literally "if you see something, say something". They saw something that not only did they not recognize, they also saw that it looked like a grenade. They called the police, the police saw an object - I'm guessing at a distance - that again, looked like a grenade, then no one came forward to say "oh hey, that grenade looking thing is a safe device that belongs to me". So they evacuated it so explosives professionals with the gear to handle it actually being a bomb could look at the - again, grenade looking object - was a grenade or something inert. Also for whoever designed that, a good rule of thumb is to ensure that things that are not grenades or explosive devices, do not look almost identical to a grenade or an tv bomb.
    - olliej 4y ago
      Oh, and to be absolutely clear, I agree with @rasz that police are assholes and intentionally arrange themselves to largely be a gang without consequences, but in this case they clearly made the correct call. Stopped clocks, etc.
    - rasz 4y ago
      >grenades you see in movies Yes, it does look like a movie prop, aka not real. >What world do you live in which if you did not already know that exact piece of hardware, not reporting it would be the correct course of action? Report all you like, but 1 take a picture, 2 upload to image search engine. Here you go, I cropped the table so we dont get exact match to the Utah story: https://i.imgur.com/9l9gGBp.png https://i.imgur.com/9l9gGBp.png https://yandex.com/images/search?rpt=imageview&url=https%3A%2F%2Favatars.mds.yandex.net%2Fget-images-cbir%2F105757%2FtkuT6Objz6yvm7Oh_00wyA5476%2Forig&cbir_id=105757%2FtkuT6Objz6yvm7Oh_00wyA5476 https://yandex.com/images/search?rpt=imageview&url=https%3A%... first result exact match! https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailv2&iss=sbi&form=SBIIDP&sbisrc=UrlPaste&q=imgurl:https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F9l9gGBp.png&idpbck=1&selectedindex=0&id=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F9l9gGBp.png&ccid=N%2BSdkCS4&mediaurl=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F9l9gGBp.png&exph=524&expw=330&vt=2&sim=1 https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailv2&iss=sbi&for... 5th result exact match! Do you now understand how stupid the cop who did this was? No? Does this https://www.salon.com/2007/09/21/star_simpson/ https://www.salon.com/2007/09/21/star_simpson/ look like a bomb? a real bomb, not the movie prop kind?