2 ms·

Ignore the issue of tribal-level consent I don't understand how that's even an issue. A tribe has no more right over its members DNA than someone's parents or

by causi 4y ago

Ignore the issue of tribal-level consent I don't understand how that's even an issue. A tribe has no more right over its members DNA than someone's parents or pastor do.

zardo 4y ago
If you have rights to keep your own DNA private, doesn't that practically require restrictions on relatives rights to publish their DNA?
- causi 4y ago
  No more than someone can stop their identical twin from doing porn.
- mc32 4y ago
  At this time, I don't think there is such a right --otherwise Ancestry/genomics and other companies would exist in completely different form. I mean, I agree it is a very valid question; however that genie is out of the bottle and I don't see it going back in.
ch4s3 4y ago
I loosely agree in principle. However, tribal groups in the US operate as their own little semi-autonomous ethno-states with a bizarre amount of oversight from the Bureau of Indian Affairs but still have a lot of latitude. There's a dodgy history of researchers lying to native groups in order to get DNA samples(including promising but not delivering medical services, so there's a lot of reticence around participation. There's also issuers around ancestral rights to land which could be complicated by DNA testing, and all of the tribes are intimately familiar with how the government handled the Osage Indian murders, which involved odd elements of heredity and weird legal stuff. Tribes, in places, with all of this stuff swirling around want to embargo participation in this research. The only way to keep their groups DNA out of the research is to stop any and all members from participating. TL;DR it's complicated and researchers in the past shit in the pool.
- mc32 4y ago
  These are good points but still a person fully informed should be able to share of themselves whatever they want to share without group approval —otherwise it appears to be similar to cult restrictions on member participation with the outside world.
  - ch4s3 4y ago
    While I agree more or less, we are talking about people who have a totally different system of values who are historically put upon so I’m not quick to judge them. Scientists who have approached tribes differently have had better luck. Sometimes pluralism means accepting that other people have values you don’t think are good and valid.

by causi 4y ago

Ignore the issue of tribal-level consent I don't understand how that's even an issue. A tribe has no more right over its members DNA than someone's parents or pastor do.

zardo 4y ago

If you have rights to keep your own DNA private, doesn't that practically require restrictions on relatives rights to publish their DNA?

causi 4y ago
No more than someone can stop their identical twin from doing porn.
mc32 4y ago
At this time, I don't think there is such a right --otherwise Ancestry/genomics and other companies would exist in completely different form. I mean, I agree it is a very valid question; however that genie is out of the bottle and I don't see it going back in.

ch4s3 4y ago

I loosely agree in principle. However, tribal groups in the US operate as their own little semi-autonomous ethno-states with a bizarre amount of oversight from the Bureau of Indian Affairs but still have a lot of latitude. There's a dodgy history of researchers lying to native groups in order to get DNA samples(including promising but not delivering medical services, so there's a lot of reticence around participation. There's also issuers around ancestral rights to land which could be complicated by DNA testing, and all of the tribes are intimately familiar with how the government handled the Osage Indian murders, which involved odd elements of heredity and weird legal stuff. Tribes, in places, with all of this stuff swirling around want to embargo participation in this research. The only way to keep their groups DNA out of the research is to stop any and all members from participating. TL;DR it's complicated and researchers in the past shit in the pool.

mc32 4y ago
These are good points but still a person fully informed should be able to share of themselves whatever they want to share without group approval —otherwise it appears to be similar to cult restrictions on member participation with the outside world.
- ch4s3 4y ago
  While I agree more or less, we are talking about people who have a totally different system of values who are historically put upon so I’m not quick to judge them. Scientists who have approached tribes differently have had better luck. Sometimes pluralism means accepting that other people have values you don’t think are good and valid.