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> "Mass fun violence in the 80s were marked with higher powered guns, like the Uzi used in..." Reading the Wikipedia link you yourself provided, seems like he

> "Mass fun violence in the 80s were marked with higher powered guns, like the Uzi used in..." Reading the Wikipedia link you yourself provided, seems like he used the shotgun as often or more than the Uzi carbine. The article also notes that the Uzi carbine used is a) semi-automatic (fires only once per trigger pull, like other ordinary civilian firearms) and b) fires 9mm pistol rounds (about midrange in power and effectiveness for pistols), meaning that its actually not a "higher powered gun" in any way and certainly not when compared to the shotgun. Don't mislead people. It only makes it harder to pass sane gun control laws when its proponents are seen to be repeating exaggerations and misconceptions.

dragontamer 4y ago
> As staff and customers tried to hide beneath tables and service booths, Huberty turned his attention toward six women and children huddled together.[23] He first killed 19-year-old María Colmenero-Silva with a single gunshot to the chest, then fatally shot nine-year-old Claudia Pérez[3] in the stomach, cheek, thigh, hip, leg, chest, back, armpit, and head with his Uzi. He then wounded Pérez's 15-year-old sister Imelda once in the hand[24] with the same weapon, and fired upon 11-year-old Aurora Peña with his shotgun. Peña—initially wounded in the leg—had been shielded by her pregnant aunt, 18-year-old Jackie Reyes.[25] Huberty shot Reyes 48 times with the Uzi.[26] Beside his mother's body, eight-month-old Carlos Reyes sat up and wailed, whereupon Huberty shouted at the child, then killed the toddler with a single pistol shot to the center of the back.[27] -------- This seems only possible with higher-capacity magazines, does it not? The Uzi was designed as a fully-automatic submachinegun. Yes, he was using a semi-automatic version, but its still a carbine (more accurate than a pistol), and capable of larger magazines unavailable to small pistols. I'm not being misleading. You can see the weapons he used, and how he used them. The Uzi was instrumental in the high number of shots. The shotgun / pistol was still used of course, but with lower capacity magazines, doesn't have the same effect (ex: 48 shots in one victim from the Uzi was much easier) EDIT: Sure, the 48 shots from the Uzi would require a reload (32-round magazine). But the Browning Hi-Power pistol only has a 13-round magazine, so that would have required 4 reloads to shoot 48 times, and would have been far more tedious.
- ThrowawayR2 4y ago
  > "...(more accurate than a pistol)..." The incident was in a restaurant, not a shooting range. At almost point blank range, accuracy is not that relevant. > "...capable of larger magazines unavailable to small pistols." It only takes a second or two to swap magazines with practice so it's unclear that being restricted to the pistol he also carried and having to swap magazines would have significantly changed the outcome. Also note that the shotgun carries only 4-6 rounds, depending on the model, and is more cumbersome to reload yet he killed numerous people with that as well, implying several reloads. Aside from that, magazine capacity is not what the general public thinks about when the words "higher power weapon" is used, so bringing that factor up doesn't bolster the original post anyway.
  - dragontamer 4y ago
    > The incident was in a restaurant, not a shooting range. At almost point blank range, accuracy is not that relevant. Range is always relevant. Especially when you're sending in Police to take them down. A shooter only armed with a Pistol can be outgunned and outranged by cheaper and easier weapons. A shooter armed with a longer-barrel carbine will be more dangerous against Police snipers (who need to position themselves further back for better safety). Basic tactics. The range of the gun, the power / penetration of the gun, the magazine, how quickly the gun fires, etc. etc. These all matter. If the gun is slow enough, you could very well take them out by hand or with a knife even. It is said that at point-blank ranges, a knife is arguably a better weapon than even a pistol. That changes vs a shotgun (large pellets / area, less aiming), and other weapon types. --------- If the enemy has a carbine, you don't attack in with just a pistol. If the enemy has a higher penetrating 7.76mm ammo and is wearing body armor (as is the case of some of these other mass shootings), you don't go in with 5.56mm Uzi/carbines or Pistols.

dragontamer 4y ago

> As staff and customers tried to hide beneath tables and service booths, Huberty turned his attention toward six women and children huddled together.[23] He first killed 19-year-old María Colmenero-Silva with a single gunshot to the chest, then fatally shot nine-year-old Claudia Pérez[3] in the stomach, cheek, thigh, hip, leg, chest, back, armpit, and head with his Uzi. He then wounded Pérez's 15-year-old sister Imelda once in the hand[24] with the same weapon, and fired upon 11-year-old Aurora Peña with his shotgun. Peña—initially wounded in the leg—had been shielded by her pregnant aunt, 18-year-old Jackie Reyes.[25] Huberty shot Reyes 48 times with the Uzi.[26] Beside his mother's body, eight-month-old Carlos Reyes sat up and wailed, whereupon Huberty shouted at the child, then killed the toddler with a single pistol shot to the center of the back.[27] -------- This seems only possible with higher-capacity magazines, does it not? The Uzi was designed as a fully-automatic submachinegun. Yes, he was using a semi-automatic version, but its still a carbine (more accurate than a pistol), and capable of larger magazines unavailable to small pistols. I'm not being misleading. You can see the weapons he used, and how he used them. The Uzi was instrumental in the high number of shots. The shotgun / pistol was still used of course, but with lower capacity magazines, doesn't have the same effect (ex: 48 shots in one victim from the Uzi was much easier) EDIT: Sure, the 48 shots from the Uzi would require a reload (32-round magazine). But the Browning Hi-Power pistol only has a 13-round magazine, so that would have required 4 reloads to shoot 48 times, and would have been far more tedious.

ThrowawayR2 4y ago
> "...(more accurate than a pistol)..." The incident was in a restaurant, not a shooting range. At almost point blank range, accuracy is not that relevant. > "...capable of larger magazines unavailable to small pistols." It only takes a second or two to swap magazines with practice so it's unclear that being restricted to the pistol he also carried and having to swap magazines would have significantly changed the outcome. Also note that the shotgun carries only 4-6 rounds, depending on the model, and is more cumbersome to reload yet he killed numerous people with that as well, implying several reloads. Aside from that, magazine capacity is not what the general public thinks about when the words "higher power weapon" is used, so bringing that factor up doesn't bolster the original post anyway.
- dragontamer 4y ago
  > The incident was in a restaurant, not a shooting range. At almost point blank range, accuracy is not that relevant. Range is always relevant. Especially when you're sending in Police to take them down. A shooter only armed with a Pistol can be outgunned and outranged by cheaper and easier weapons. A shooter armed with a longer-barrel carbine will be more dangerous against Police snipers (who need to position themselves further back for better safety). Basic tactics. The range of the gun, the power / penetration of the gun, the magazine, how quickly the gun fires, etc. etc. These all matter. If the gun is slow enough, you could very well take them out by hand or with a knife even. It is said that at point-blank ranges, a knife is arguably a better weapon than even a pistol. That changes vs a shotgun (large pellets / area, less aiming), and other weapon types. --------- If the enemy has a carbine, you don't attack in with just a pistol. If the enemy has a higher penetrating 7.76mm ammo and is wearing body armor (as is the case of some of these other mass shootings), you don't go in with 5.56mm Uzi/carbines or Pistols.