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fundamental problem is cargo cult developers trying to copy massive companies architectures as a startup. They fail to realize those companies only moved to mic

fundamental problem is cargo cult developers trying to copy massive companies architectures as a startup. They fail to realize those companies only moved to microservices because they had no other option. Lots of startups hurting themselves by blindly following these practices without knowing why they were created in the first place. Some of it is also done by people who know it isn't good for the company, but they want to pad their resume and leave before the consequences are seen. same thing applies to Leetcode style interviews, no startup should be using them honestly. They are for established companies that have so many quality applicants they can afford to filter out great candidates

vinnymac 4y ago
I have seen the resume padder on many occasions, and have had to clean up after they left. It's amazing to see a team become visibly happier with their day job when you move to sensible foundations based on sound reasoning. The teams that were the most efficient, and happiest with their day to day were the ones which picked frameworks with good documentation, a plethora of online resources, and ignored the latest shiny toy on the market.
- hinkley 4y ago
  What's amazing is how often people have to see it to believe it. One of my running jokes/not jokes is that one day I'm going to hire a personal trainer, but then instead of having them train me, I'm just going to ask them a million questions about how they convince people who have never been 'in shape' how good it's going to feel when they are. Because that's what it often feels like at work.
- robocat 4y ago
  Wouldn’t it be an engineer’s hell working at a place that employs based on resumes from resume driven developers? You learn the latest shiny tech, then change jobs to a new company using your sparkling resume, self-selecting for companies that like the beautiful sparkles in your resume, then you get to work with other like-minded sparkle tech lovers. At what companies do resume padders end up in? Quote from elsewhere in thread: “Whatever is the new thing, jump on it hard and fast like your life depends on it.”
cmrdporcupine 4y ago
re: "copy massive companies"; I don't recall seeing a single "microservice" at Google. Granted, in the 10 years I was there I mostly worked on non-cloud type stuff. But still. Google has perfected the art of the giant, distributed, horizontally scalable mostly-relational database. They have services, yes. But in large part... they generally all talk to F1 or similar. Microservices with each thing having its own schema and/or DB seems to me to be a phenomenally stupid idea which will simply lead to abusing your relational model and doing dumb things like your own custom bespoke server-side joins with your own custom bespoke two phase commit or other transaction logic. Before Google I worked in one shop that did 'microservices' and the release process was a complicated nightmare that would have been better solved by a complicated combinatorial graph optimization library. There were cross service RPCish calls made all over the place to piece data together that in a more monolithic system would be resolved by a simple fast relational join. I shudder to remember it. But I'm just an old man. Pay no heed.
- SulphurSmell 4y ago
  I am also old. And tend to agree with you on this.
  - verelo 4y ago
    I’m older than i was when people started telling me as a tech founder that we needed micro services to be cool. At 25 i felt it didn’t deliver any real customer value and made my life harder, at 35 it seems like the people that do this are not people i want to hire anyway.
    - dinvlad 4y ago
      I started sorta the opposite and thought that nano(!) services (think one AWS Lambda per API call) were the best approach, and now I look at that younger wisdom with a parental smile..
      - crdrost 4y ago
babbledabbler 4y ago
Yep have seen this firsthand. Beware the evangelist who shows up bearing fancy new architectural patterns and who can't be bothered to understand nor discuss details of the existing system.
- mirekrusin 4y ago
  Same here.
mirekrusin 4y ago
this; i've repeated it dozens of times at my co. to the same people. it was funny, then weird, now it's becoming depressing, not sure what's next.
- avgDev 4y ago
  Next, you find a sensible company with reasonable people.
  - zx8080 4y ago
    It's hard to find non-faang company not filled with cv padders (i mean who always votes for unnecessary but shiny frameworks and an additional architecture complexity). People are motivated with money more than anything else, and a cv which looks good opens access to that money. So incentive to pad cv is very high, even at the expense of the system they build and their teams and companies.
Jistern 4y ago
>> fundamental problem is cargo cult developers trying to copy massive companies architectures as a startup. They fail to realize those companies only moved to microservices because they had no other option. This. Microservices add complexity; therefore, they should be avoided unless necessary. That's Engineering 101 folks.

vinnymac 4y ago

I have seen the resume padder on many occasions, and have had to clean up after they left. It's amazing to see a team become visibly happier with their day job when you move to sensible foundations based on sound reasoning. The teams that were the most efficient, and happiest with their day to day were the ones which picked frameworks with good documentation, a plethora of online resources, and ignored the latest shiny toy on the market.

hinkley 4y ago
What's amazing is how often people have to see it to believe it. One of my running jokes/not jokes is that one day I'm going to hire a personal trainer, but then instead of having them train me, I'm just going to ask them a million questions about how they convince people who have never been 'in shape' how good it's going to feel when they are. Because that's what it often feels like at work.
robocat 4y ago
Wouldn’t it be an engineer’s hell working at a place that employs based on resumes from resume driven developers? You learn the latest shiny tech, then change jobs to a new company using your sparkling resume, self-selecting for companies that like the beautiful sparkles in your resume, then you get to work with other like-minded sparkle tech lovers. At what companies do resume padders end up in? Quote from elsewhere in thread: “Whatever is the new thing, jump on it hard and fast like your life depends on it.”

cmrdporcupine 4y ago

re: "copy massive companies"; I don't recall seeing a single "microservice" at Google. Granted, in the 10 years I was there I mostly worked on non-cloud type stuff. But still. Google has perfected the art of the giant, distributed, horizontally scalable mostly-relational database. They have services, yes. But in large part... they generally all talk to F1 or similar. Microservices with each thing having its own schema and/or DB seems to me to be a phenomenally stupid idea which will simply lead to abusing your relational model and doing dumb things like your own custom bespoke server-side joins with your own custom bespoke two phase commit or other transaction logic. Before Google I worked in one shop that did 'microservices' and the release process was a complicated nightmare that would have been better solved by a complicated combinatorial graph optimization library. There were cross service RPCish calls made all over the place to piece data together that in a more monolithic system would be resolved by a simple fast relational join. I shudder to remember it. But I'm just an old man. Pay no heed.

SulphurSmell 4y ago
I am also old. And tend to agree with you on this.
- verelo 4y ago
  I’m older than i was when people started telling me as a tech founder that we needed micro services to be cool. At 25 i felt it didn’t deliver any real customer value and made my life harder, at 35 it seems like the people that do this are not people i want to hire anyway.
  - dinvlad 4y ago
    I started sorta the opposite and thought that nano(!) services (think one AWS Lambda per API call) were the best approach, and now I look at that younger wisdom with a parental smile..
    - crdrost 4y ago

babbledabbler 4y ago

Yep have seen this firsthand. Beware the evangelist who shows up bearing fancy new architectural patterns and who can't be bothered to understand nor discuss details of the existing system.

mirekrusin 4y ago
Same here.

mirekrusin 4y ago

this; i've repeated it dozens of times at my co. to the same people. it was funny, then weird, now it's becoming depressing, not sure what's next.

avgDev 4y ago
Next, you find a sensible company with reasonable people.
- zx8080 4y ago
  It's hard to find non-faang company not filled with cv padders (i mean who always votes for unnecessary but shiny frameworks and an additional architecture complexity). People are motivated with money more than anything else, and a cv which looks good opens access to that money. So incentive to pad cv is very high, even at the expense of the system they build and their teams and companies.

Jistern 4y ago

>> fundamental problem is cargo cult developers trying to copy massive companies architectures as a startup. They fail to realize those companies only moved to microservices because they had no other option. This. Microservices add complexity; therefore, they should be avoided unless necessary. That's Engineering 101 folks.