4 ms·

You have to know the rules to break them effectively. Like, if your story is about a new kind of poison, which your reader cannot know anything about, awesome.

You have to know the rules to break them effectively. Like, if your story is about a new kind of poison, which your reader cannot know anything about, awesome. But understand that your story is now about that new poison, not about solving the murder, because solving the murder is impossible without special, in-universe knowledge.

watwut 4y ago
Good authors did not started by writing hundred formulaic stories first. Instead, they tended to seek own way even as they learned from predecessors. I don't like this saying, because in literature and art generally it leads to formulaic repetitive stories. If you dont break rules before learning them, you will never learn to break them. And when it is most common advice there is, we get the situation in which you can predict the rest of average book or movie after first 10 minutes. It is much better when authors treat rules as optional formulas - follow or not and be aware there is a lot more to choose from.
- thomascgalvin 4y ago
  > Good authors did not started by writing hundred formulaic stories first. Maybe not hundreds, but I bet many good authors started by writing a few dozen formulaic stories first. Humans learn through mimicry, and I don't think storytelling is any different. > If you dont break rules before learning them, you will never learn to break them. If you're good at your craft, you end up learning the rules regardless; the only question is how efficient are you at doing do? The best way to learn is through mistakes, but you can choose to learn from others' mistakes, so you don't need to make them yourself. That's what the "rules" are: things other people have done, that didn't work. They aren't absolutes, but they're good starting points, and until you have some sort of intuition about things, breaking the rules should at least make you stop and consider why you're doing so, and if you're doing so in a way that will work.
  - watwut 4y ago
    > I bet many good authors started by writing a few dozen formulaic stories first I don't think this is true based on authors I know. The ones I know that started with dozen formulaic stories wrote formulaic stories whole their lives. They might have been good formulaic stories, but still. The ones who did not wrote formulaic, were going outside formulaic from the beginning. > Humans learn through mimicry, and I don't think storytelling is any different. Mimicry of formulaic story is exactly same formulaic story. Yes, you will learn how to wrote that one formula if you go this way. > The best way to learn is through mistakes, but you can choose to learn from others' mistakes, so you don't need to make them yourself. That does not imply you should write few dozen formulaic stories before attempting to create something else. You can study other writers without writing formulaic stories.

watwut 4y ago

Good authors did not started by writing hundred formulaic stories first. Instead, they tended to seek own way even as they learned from predecessors. I don't like this saying, because in literature and art generally it leads to formulaic repetitive stories. If you dont break rules before learning them, you will never learn to break them. And when it is most common advice there is, we get the situation in which you can predict the rest of average book or movie after first 10 minutes. It is much better when authors treat rules as optional formulas - follow or not and be aware there is a lot more to choose from.

thomascgalvin 4y ago
> Good authors did not started by writing hundred formulaic stories first. Maybe not hundreds, but I bet many good authors started by writing a few dozen formulaic stories first. Humans learn through mimicry, and I don't think storytelling is any different. > If you dont break rules before learning them, you will never learn to break them. If you're good at your craft, you end up learning the rules regardless; the only question is how efficient are you at doing do? The best way to learn is through mistakes, but you can choose to learn from others' mistakes, so you don't need to make them yourself. That's what the "rules" are: things other people have done, that didn't work. They aren't absolutes, but they're good starting points, and until you have some sort of intuition about things, breaking the rules should at least make you stop and consider why you're doing so, and if you're doing so in a way that will work.
- watwut 4y ago
  > I bet many good authors started by writing a few dozen formulaic stories first I don't think this is true based on authors I know. The ones I know that started with dozen formulaic stories wrote formulaic stories whole their lives. They might have been good formulaic stories, but still. The ones who did not wrote formulaic, were going outside formulaic from the beginning. > Humans learn through mimicry, and I don't think storytelling is any different. Mimicry of formulaic story is exactly same formulaic story. Yes, you will learn how to wrote that one formula if you go this way. > The best way to learn is through mistakes, but you can choose to learn from others' mistakes, so you don't need to make them yourself. That does not imply you should write few dozen formulaic stories before attempting to create something else. You can study other writers without writing formulaic stories.