4 ms·

Tesla is mistakenly listed as having been founded by Elon Musk. (See e.g. Wikipedia for accurate information.)

by SomeHacker44 4y ago

FuriouslyAdrift 4y ago
He's LEGALLY a founder (as per the lawsuit)... but I get your meaning.
- sircastor 4y ago
  This is absurd, and as bad as him being listed as the "Chief Engineer" at SpaceX
  - dehrmann 4y ago
    They're different. Rewriting history to say you're a founder is delusional. Giving yourself the title of "chief engineer" is akin to being the mascot of the company.
    - Ekaros 4y ago
      I see something like Chief Engineer no different from Executive Producer on movie or tv show...
- kergonath 4y ago
  He can call himself however he wants (he’s also completely unqualified to be called an engineer), but money cannot buy facts.
  - asciiresort 4y ago
    > he’s also completely unqualified to be called an engineer What qualifies someone as an engineer? Math? What kind of math? Building stuff? What kind of stuff? Writing code? What languages count and what languages don’t? Does CSS count? Or are you talking about some kind of academic certification or standardized exam? It seems like you are basing someone’s engineering prowess based on their personal, social, political antics.
    - kergonath 4y ago
      > What qualifies someone as an engineer? Depends on the country. In some, it's a certification that comes with responsibilities, in others it's just a job. In any case: 1) he hasn't got anything that comes close to an engineering qualification (no, dropping off a Ph.D. after a a B.Sc. is not enough); 2) his job does not involve anything like an engineer's job, which is to "invent, design, analyze, build and test machines, complex systems, structures, gadgets and materials to fulfill functional objectives and requirements while considering the limitations imposed by practicality, regulation, safety and cost." [1] He is very good at ordering people around, but there is no evidence that he did any of this at any point (though there is a lot of evidence that he got some underlings to do the boring work for him). Again, dumping a pile of money on someone to do it is not the same thing. I can respect that he did take some risks with his investments. Even if you have an axe to grind and are frustrated by some people not considering software engineering as "proper engineering" (which is how I read your post, though Musk certainly is not a software engineer either), writing CSS for a living is closer to engineering than what Musk is doing. [1] e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineer
      - asciiresort 4y ago
        > Depends on the country. In some, it's a certification that comes with responsibilities, in others it's just a job. In any case: Yes, this was a rhetorical question. Those countries that require a certification is not relevant to the discussion, because Elon Musk is operating out of America which does not require a certification to be a software engineer. In which case, by your definition, it's just a job or more specifically a job title. That's useless information because then people without a job title or don't care for one aren't engineers, and people who have the job title would automatically be an engineer. So if Elon Musk changes his job title to engineer instead of CEO, is he qualified now? Maybe he should prefix Senior to the title while he's at it. > 1) he hasn't got anything that comes close to an engineering qualification (no, dropping off a Ph.D. after a a B.Sc. is not enough); So people who don't have a Ph.D. aren't engineers? > his job does not involve anything like an engineer's job, which is to "invent, design, analyze, build and test machines, complex systems, structures, gadgets and materials to fulfill functional objectives and requirements while considering the limitations imposed by practicality, regulation, safety and cost." Yes, he's a CEO. Are the CEOs of Google and Facebook still engineers if they aren't writing code? And what kind of complex system? Are organizations not complex systems? > there is no evidence that he did any of this at any point The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. If you're an engineer, you should understand this. How do you think someone gets accepted into an engineering PhD, drop out or not, if they've never did any of this at any point in their life?
- dehrmann 4y ago
  IANAL, but it more like the company has a legal obligation to tell that story and let him call himself a founder, but it's an out-of-court settlement, so we're free to call him an early investor and leave it at that. Now if Tesla to make a libel claim against the sources saying Eberhard and Tarpenning were the real founders, it can.

Tesla is mistakenly listed as having been founded by Elon Musk. (See e.g. Wikipedia for accurate information.)

FuriouslyAdrift 4y ago

He's LEGALLY a founder (as per the lawsuit)... but I get your meaning.

sircastor 4y ago
This is absurd, and as bad as him being listed as the "Chief Engineer" at SpaceX
- dehrmann 4y ago
  They're different. Rewriting history to say you're a founder is delusional. Giving yourself the title of "chief engineer" is akin to being the mascot of the company.
  - Ekaros 4y ago
    I see something like Chief Engineer no different from Executive Producer on movie or tv show...
kergonath 4y ago
He can call himself however he wants (he’s also completely unqualified to be called an engineer), but money cannot buy facts.
- asciiresort 4y ago
  > he’s also completely unqualified to be called an engineer What qualifies someone as an engineer? Math? What kind of math? Building stuff? What kind of stuff? Writing code? What languages count and what languages don’t? Does CSS count? Or are you talking about some kind of academic certification or standardized exam? It seems like you are basing someone’s engineering prowess based on their personal, social, political antics.
  - kergonath 4y ago
    > What qualifies someone as an engineer? Depends on the country. In some, it's a certification that comes with responsibilities, in others it's just a job. In any case: 1) he hasn't got anything that comes close to an engineering qualification (no, dropping off a Ph.D. after a a B.Sc. is not enough); 2) his job does not involve anything like an engineer's job, which is to "invent, design, analyze, build and test machines, complex systems, structures, gadgets and materials to fulfill functional objectives and requirements while considering the limitations imposed by practicality, regulation, safety and cost." [1] He is very good at ordering people around, but there is no evidence that he did any of this at any point (though there is a lot of evidence that he got some underlings to do the boring work for him). Again, dumping a pile of money on someone to do it is not the same thing. I can respect that he did take some risks with his investments. Even if you have an axe to grind and are frustrated by some people not considering software engineering as "proper engineering" (which is how I read your post, though Musk certainly is not a software engineer either), writing CSS for a living is closer to engineering than what Musk is doing. [1] e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineer
    - asciiresort 4y ago
      > Depends on the country. In some, it's a certification that comes with responsibilities, in others it's just a job. In any case: Yes, this was a rhetorical question. Those countries that require a certification is not relevant to the discussion, because Elon Musk is operating out of America which does not require a certification to be a software engineer. In which case, by your definition, it's just a job or more specifically a job title. That's useless information because then people without a job title or don't care for one aren't engineers, and people who have the job title would automatically be an engineer. So if Elon Musk changes his job title to engineer instead of CEO, is he qualified now? Maybe he should prefix Senior to the title while he's at it. > 1) he hasn't got anything that comes close to an engineering qualification (no, dropping off a Ph.D. after a a B.Sc. is not enough); So people who don't have a Ph.D. aren't engineers? > his job does not involve anything like an engineer's job, which is to "invent, design, analyze, build and test machines, complex systems, structures, gadgets and materials to fulfill functional objectives and requirements while considering the limitations imposed by practicality, regulation, safety and cost." Yes, he's a CEO. Are the CEOs of Google and Facebook still engineers if they aren't writing code? And what kind of complex system? Are organizations not complex systems? > there is no evidence that he did any of this at any point The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. If you're an engineer, you should understand this. How do you think someone gets accepted into an engineering PhD, drop out or not, if they've never did any of this at any point in their life?
dehrmann 4y ago
IANAL, but it more like the company has a legal obligation to tell that story and let him call himself a founder, but it's an out-of-court settlement, so we're free to call him an early investor and leave it at that. Now if Tesla to make a libel claim against the sources saying Eberhard and Tarpenning were the real founders, it can.