3 ms·

What's the difference in keyboards?

schroeding 4y ago
European keyboards are often in the ISO layout, think large enter key and additional keys left of it US keyboards have the narrow enter key and different placements for many symbols
- roywashere 4y ago
  Also in France and Germany you have funny stuff such as azerty and QWERTZ. And have you seen Spanish layout? Horrible for software development
  - Tempest1981 4y ago
    ';' is moved, to add the 'Ñ' key: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:KB_Spanish.svg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:KB_Spanish.svg
- garaetjjte 4y ago
  Some European countries (eg. Poland) typically use US layout.
hans1729 4y ago
can't speak for op because I don't know what layout his country has. For Germany, vim is not usable beyond basic movements, because for example [ and ] have no dedicated keys. Typing { } on the default german layout is an insult to the typer. I remember a vim-shortcut that would have required to press five keys at the same time.
- balfirevic 4y ago
  But that's just about software keyboard layout, isn't it? I've been using US layout since forever (configured in OS), even though my keyboards have Croatian scribbles on some keys. I do see now that the actual physical layout might be different, having large vs. small enter key and possibly additional key next to the left shift.
z9znz 4y ago
This image illustrates the differences: https://appuals.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/1-11.jpg https://appuals.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/1-11.jpg The difference is that one keyboard is made for humans who touch type, and the other keyboard is made for people who like to lift up their hand and move it every time they want to hit return... or left shift. The ones with the shorter left shift and narrower/taller return key are just bad designs. They make keys you use frequently less accessible, and the tradeoff is that keys you rarely use are now in reach.
- jeffhuys 4y ago
  I'm not in the US, so I'm kinda alone in this, and forgot to tell my work I wanted an international one, so I got an M1 pro from work with the international lay-out. I've been using US layout since I was ~8. And all my other systems have the US layout. I am having such a hard time to get used to it. I keep hitting ± when I mean ~ (why would I even need a ±/§ key on my keyboard?). I keep hitting \ when I want to hit Return. I keep hitting ~ when I want to hit shift. Frustrating. Agreed with the "bad design" point.
  - z9znz 4y ago
    I had this as well with a previous company work laptop, so I had to use a wireless external keyboard always. Using the built-in keyboard was so frustrating that it made me angry enough to almost destroy the laptop a few times. It should be noted that on older Macbooks, the aluminum case has actual cutouts for keys. So it's not possible to change the layout of keyboard without also changing the case. I discovered this when I had my personal laptop repaired, and it came back with the wrong keyboard! The shop just instinctively ordered keyboard+case of their usual layout, so I had to have the whole thing redone again (at no extra charge, just a loss of time).
  - tom_ 4y ago
    Well there must be at least 3 of us, because I'm another one. I've used the US layout ever since you could save something like 28 KBytes from not loading the UK layout, and I used this with UK keyboards for years. (Very useful having a backslash key for every hand.) Then at some point I acquired an actual US keyboard, and I was an immediate convert. I just really liked the fat Return key. When I bought my first MBP, I wasn't completely wedded to the idea of getting a Mac necessarily - but when I noticed you could order one with a US keyboard, it tipped the balance in favour. (For any serious work, I use a USB keyboard and mouse, so in a sense it doesn't really matter. But I use the built-in keyboard often enough that I'd be annoyed being stuck with that tiny Return key...) (This reminded me: if you go to get a battery replacement, make sure the staff member notes that it's got a US keyboard. I took mine to a UK Apple store for a battery replacement a couple of years ago, and when I went to pick it up a few days later, it had had its keyboard replaced with a UK one! The staff member was very apologetic - perhaps they correctly read my expression of speechless shock after opening it - and it got fixed, but it took a couple more days. So in the end I was without my laptop for over a week.)

European keyboards are often in the ISO layout, think large enter key and additional keys left of it US keyboards have the narrow enter key and different placements for many symbols

roywashere 4y ago
Also in France and Germany you have funny stuff such as azerty and QWERTZ. And have you seen Spanish layout? Horrible for software development
- Tempest1981 4y ago
  ';' is moved, to add the 'Ñ' key: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:KB_Spanish.svg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:KB_Spanish.svg
garaetjjte 4y ago
Some European countries (eg. Poland) typically use US layout.

hans1729 4y ago

can't speak for op because I don't know what layout his country has. For Germany, vim is not usable beyond basic movements, because for example [ and ] have no dedicated keys. Typing { } on the default german layout is an insult to the typer. I remember a vim-shortcut that would have required to press five keys at the same time.

balfirevic 4y ago
But that's just about software keyboard layout, isn't it? I've been using US layout since forever (configured in OS), even though my keyboards have Croatian scribbles on some keys. I do see now that the actual physical layout might be different, having large vs. small enter key and possibly additional key next to the left shift.

z9znz 4y ago

This image illustrates the differences: https://appuals.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/1-11.jpg https://appuals.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/1-11.jpg The difference is that one keyboard is made for humans who touch type, and the other keyboard is made for people who like to lift up their hand and move it every time they want to hit return... or left shift. The ones with the shorter left shift and narrower/taller return key are just bad designs. They make keys you use frequently less accessible, and the tradeoff is that keys you rarely use are now in reach.

jeffhuys 4y ago
I'm not in the US, so I'm kinda alone in this, and forgot to tell my work I wanted an international one, so I got an M1 pro from work with the international lay-out. I've been using US layout since I was ~8. And all my other systems have the US layout. I am having such a hard time to get used to it. I keep hitting ± when I mean ~ (why would I even need a ±/§ key on my keyboard?). I keep hitting \ when I want to hit Return. I keep hitting ~ when I want to hit shift. Frustrating. Agreed with the "bad design" point.
- z9znz 4y ago
  I had this as well with a previous company work laptop, so I had to use a wireless external keyboard always. Using the built-in keyboard was so frustrating that it made me angry enough to almost destroy the laptop a few times. It should be noted that on older Macbooks, the aluminum case has actual cutouts for keys. So it's not possible to change the layout of keyboard without also changing the case. I discovered this when I had my personal laptop repaired, and it came back with the wrong keyboard! The shop just instinctively ordered keyboard+case of their usual layout, so I had to have the whole thing redone again (at no extra charge, just a loss of time).
- tom_ 4y ago
  Well there must be at least 3 of us, because I'm another one. I've used the US layout ever since you could save something like 28 KBytes from not loading the UK layout, and I used this with UK keyboards for years. (Very useful having a backslash key for every hand.) Then at some point I acquired an actual US keyboard, and I was an immediate convert. I just really liked the fat Return key. When I bought my first MBP, I wasn't completely wedded to the idea of getting a Mac necessarily - but when I noticed you could order one with a US keyboard, it tipped the balance in favour. (For any serious work, I use a USB keyboard and mouse, so in a sense it doesn't really matter. But I use the built-in keyboard often enough that I'd be annoyed being stuck with that tiny Return key...) (This reminded me: if you go to get a battery replacement, make sure the staff member notes that it's got a US keyboard. I took mine to a UK Apple store for a battery replacement a couple of years ago, and when I went to pick it up a few days later, it had had its keyboard replaced with a UK one! The staff member was very apologetic - perhaps they correctly read my expression of speechless shock after opening it - and it got fixed, but it took a couple more days. So in the end I was without my laptop for over a week.)