5 ms·

I always found it weird how it was dominated by the french, with very few germans in between (only 2!). What are they doing differently? It's not that math is u

I always found it weird how it was dominated by the french, with very few germans in between (only 2!). What are they doing differently? It's not that math is unpopular here, a lot of students are studying mathematics and every university has a math department. But they are absolutely dominating and I can't really explain it.

atxbcp 4y ago
It is at least partially due to the education system: MPSI -> MP -> ENS Cachan / Lyon / Ulm. Very hard entrance exams to make sure they get the best students. Small promotion (IIRC around 40 students per year for ENS Ulm FIMFA) = homogeneous level.
davidktr 4y ago
France has an insane system of hyper-elite universities, the Grandes écoles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grande_%C3%A9cole https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grande_%C3%A9cole). I have a friend who was in one, it's even crazier than it looks from the outside. We have nothing comparable in Germany. If that's good or bad I don't know, but regarding super-elite competitions like the Fields-Medal I don't think there is another way.
- LeanderK 4y ago
  but it's not the same picture for physics of chemistry, where we get our fair share of nobel prizes. It's somehow different for math.
oblio 4y ago
I can tell you why. In German 25 is five and twenty. 67 is seven and sixty. Annoying but bearable. However, in French, 60 is sixty. 70 is sixty ten. 80 is four twenty. 90 is four twenty ten. 99 is four twenty nineteen. Any French person is steeled by their crazy numbering system, from an early age, allowing them to reach the highest mathematical heights as they grow.
- dan-robertson 4y ago
  Q: What is 20 times 4? A: 80 because multiplication is commutative.
  - oblio 4y ago
    Ok, I guess? I don't get it.
    - dan-robertson 4y ago
      Read the names of the numbers in French
      - oblio 4y ago
        I speak French... I know what they mean. I still don't get your joke or reference. Or I don't find it funny? Unsure. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
        dan-robertson 4y ago
        20 x 4 = 4 x 20 by commutativity. But the name of the number 80 is also basically 4 x 20. I guess the English equivalent would be something like ‘what is one thousand times one hundred?’ ‘One hundred thousand because multiplication is commutative’ but that is incredibly unfunny. I guess in English you think of one hundred thousand as being decomposed into a few numbers but maybe in French you just think of quatre-vingts as a single concept and will do a double-take when hearing the reason for the answer before noticing that the name of the number can be decomposed into quatre and vingt. Obviously if the joke was ever funny before it isn’t now.
- hanche 4y ago
  Danish is worse, or at least as bad. Sixty is three twenties, so fifty is half three twenties. Eighty is four twenties, so seventy is half four twenties. Ninety is half five twenties, but a hundred is just a hundred. Sanity, at last! (The twenties have been abbreviated over the years to just an -s ending, so sixty is “tres” and so on. But still …)
yodsanklai 4y ago
It's cultural. France has a long tradition of selecting and funnelling the brightest math students to elite schools and institutions. In particular, there's a system of "preparatory schools", 2 years right after high school, where students work hard to get to the best possible "Grande Ecole" (engineering school). Not only the incentive is high for the students to perform well, but maths teachers in these classes are extremely qualified. I should add that the most selective "Grande Ecole" produce more managers than engineers. Maths is mostly a mean of selecting elite, since most of these students won't work in science or engineering. Ironically, France students on average are getting worse and worse at maths. This system works well for some elite, but not for the rest of the country. I like to think it's the same for gastronomy. France has great restaurants, but a lot of French eat mostly pizza, Mac Donald's and junk food.
deleted 4y ago
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atxbcp 4y ago

It is at least partially due to the education system: MPSI -> MP -> ENS Cachan / Lyon / Ulm. Very hard entrance exams to make sure they get the best students. Small promotion (IIRC around 40 students per year for ENS Ulm FIMFA) = homogeneous level.

davidktr 4y ago

France has an insane system of hyper-elite universities, the Grandes écoles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grande_%C3%A9cole https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grande_%C3%A9cole). I have a friend who was in one, it's even crazier than it looks from the outside. We have nothing comparable in Germany. If that's good or bad I don't know, but regarding super-elite competitions like the Fields-Medal I don't think there is another way.

LeanderK 4y ago
but it's not the same picture for physics of chemistry, where we get our fair share of nobel prizes. It's somehow different for math.

oblio 4y ago

I can tell you why. In German 25 is five and twenty. 67 is seven and sixty. Annoying but bearable. However, in French, 60 is sixty. 70 is sixty ten. 80 is four twenty. 90 is four twenty ten. 99 is four twenty nineteen. Any French person is steeled by their crazy numbering system, from an early age, allowing them to reach the highest mathematical heights as they grow.

dan-robertson 4y ago
Q: What is 20 times 4? A: 80 because multiplication is commutative.
- oblio 4y ago
  Ok, I guess? I don't get it.
  - dan-robertson 4y ago
    Read the names of the numbers in French
    - oblio 4y ago
      I speak French... I know what they mean. I still don't get your joke or reference. Or I don't find it funny? Unsure. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
      - dan-robertson 4y ago
        20 x 4 = 4 x 20 by commutativity. But the name of the number 80 is also basically 4 x 20. I guess the English equivalent would be something like ‘what is one thousand times one hundred?’ ‘One hundred thousand because multiplication is commutative’ but that is incredibly unfunny. I guess in English you think of one hundred thousand as being decomposed into a few numbers but maybe in French you just think of quatre-vingts as a single concept and will do a double-take when hearing the reason for the answer before noticing that the name of the number can be decomposed into quatre and vingt. Obviously if the joke was ever funny before it isn’t now.
hanche 4y ago
Danish is worse, or at least as bad. Sixty is three twenties, so fifty is half three twenties. Eighty is four twenties, so seventy is half four twenties. Ninety is half five twenties, but a hundred is just a hundred. Sanity, at last! (The twenties have been abbreviated over the years to just an -s ending, so sixty is “tres” and so on. But still …)

yodsanklai 4y ago

It's cultural. France has a long tradition of selecting and funnelling the brightest math students to elite schools and institutions. In particular, there's a system of "preparatory schools", 2 years right after high school, where students work hard to get to the best possible "Grande Ecole" (engineering school). Not only the incentive is high for the students to perform well, but maths teachers in these classes are extremely qualified. I should add that the most selective "Grande Ecole" produce more managers than engineers. Maths is mostly a mean of selecting elite, since most of these students won't work in science or engineering. Ironically, France students on average are getting worse and worse at maths. This system works well for some elite, but not for the rest of the country. I like to think it's the same for gastronomy. France has great restaurants, but a lot of French eat mostly pizza, Mac Donald's and junk food.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]