4 ms·

They still have the best software. That’s why I think the new Apple Car Play is such a big deal. If everyone uses their phones OS on their car, Teslas advantage

by brodo 4y ago

They still have the best software. That’s why I think the new Apple Car Play is such a big deal. If everyone uses their phones OS on their car, Teslas advantage goes away.

iasay 4y ago
I’d rather the car has no software at all past simple audio connection myself. My current set up is a BT connection to my iOS device and it is absolutely spot on for reliability and I have full voice and tactile controls for everything.
- andrewflnr 4y ago
  And that audio connection better be fully airgapped from every other wire in the car.
  - b112 4y ago
    The radio used to be that way. Just power essentially. I wonder, if Tesla can bootstrap, why not an EV company on the extreme low end.
- NonNefarious 4y ago
  Exactly. The current phone "integration" into cars is bullshit, akin to the $100 AM radio rip-off of the '70s. All we've needed in cars for the last 15 years is a goddamned WELL in the dashboard to put our phones in. Have swappable plastic inserts for different phone models, and integrate a power supply and (for non-Apple victims) an audio line. "Problem" solved.
  - b112 4y ago
    Except for the profit, when you upgrade to the premium system.
    - NonNefarious 4y ago
      bingo
- systemvoltage 4y ago
  > I’d rather the car has no software I'm not sure I want to rely on a buggy iOS/CarPlay/AppleCar UI. Ok for media, but the way Apple is pitching this, it would be the operating system of the whole car's UI including showing things like oil pressure and tachometer.
  - iasay 4y ago
    To clarify I don't want CarPlay or iOS in the car. I want the car to have its own platform which is not connected to the non-essential functions and my iOS device can do that in isolation. The only real functions that are required for integration are audio controls and BT has already solved that.
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  What do you do for things like maps though?
  - iasay 4y ago
    Apple Maps
    - chrisseaton 4y ago
      You said you just have a Bluetooth audio connection - so you’re just listening to the readout of the directions? That doesn’t sound like a great experience.
      - iasay 4y ago
        The phone has a screen and sits on the dash. I don't use BT audio for directions, only for calls and Apple Music.
        chrisseaton 4y ago
        > The phone has a screen and sits on the dash. It doesn’t take a leap of imagination to understand why a proper large screen, integration into the instrument cluster, and the HUD if you have one, is safer and easier to use than a tiny phone hanging off your dash. You’re also for example missing out on your car's ability to do dead reckoning when there is a poor GPS signal.
        iasay 4y ago
        Depends how badly designed your car is. Mine sits just to the top left of the steering wheel. The phone does dead reckoning as well. It has accelerometers and a compass built in.
mike_d 4y ago
They have pretty software that is shit. I don't own a Tesla, but whenever I ride with friends the center console shows an overhead type view of the other cars around. The cars randomly blink in and out, indicating it doesn't know if the other car really exists or not. A cars UI has has exactly one function: provide accurate and actionable information to the driver. You should never need to second guess the information you are receiving.
- quantumduck 4y ago
  Pretty much every company that tries to capture the environment around it uses a probabilistic model that takes in the raw sensor data and makes predictions about things in the surroundings. The random blinking you see on the Tesla screen is essentially saying that Tesla's model prediction confidence is borderline and changing from instance to instance. Is that great? No, but they can't do much using just vision data. What's the alternative? Show the cars even when your model is not confident anymore just for user experience reasons and give false sense of confidence? That's not ideal either. Imo I don't know any other consumer car company that shows anything like that on their cars infotainment console. Companies like Waymo and Cruise do a much better job at capturing surroundings but they are in a different market where it makes sense to spend a ton of money on each car to add many LiDARs and significant compute in the car.
  - mike_d 4y ago
    > I don't know any other consumer car company that shows anything like that on their cars infotainment console. You seem to be on to something here...
  - benwad 4y ago
    > What's the alternative? Just show the navigation stuff. The driver should be able to see other cars with their eyes. The car clearly isn't good enough at spotting them itself, so why further distract the driver by trying to guess?
- Traubenfuchs 4y ago
  > The cars randomly blink in and out, indicating it doesn't know if the other car really exists or not. The wild flickering of lines, obstacles, humans and cars in perfect clear daylight conditions is absolutely flabbergasting to me and erodes any trust I have into self driving capabilities. It's outright scary.

by brodo 4y ago

They still have the best software. That’s why I think the new Apple Car Play is such a big deal. If everyone uses their phones OS on their car, Teslas advantage goes away.

iasay 4y ago

I’d rather the car has no software at all past simple audio connection myself. My current set up is a BT connection to my iOS device and it is absolutely spot on for reliability and I have full voice and tactile controls for everything.

andrewflnr 4y ago
And that audio connection better be fully airgapped from every other wire in the car.
- b112 4y ago
  The radio used to be that way. Just power essentially. I wonder, if Tesla can bootstrap, why not an EV company on the extreme low end.
NonNefarious 4y ago
Exactly. The current phone "integration" into cars is bullshit, akin to the $100 AM radio rip-off of the '70s. All we've needed in cars for the last 15 years is a goddamned WELL in the dashboard to put our phones in. Have swappable plastic inserts for different phone models, and integrate a power supply and (for non-Apple victims) an audio line. "Problem" solved.
- b112 4y ago
  Except for the profit, when you upgrade to the premium system.
  - NonNefarious 4y ago
    bingo
systemvoltage 4y ago
> I’d rather the car has no software I'm not sure I want to rely on a buggy iOS/CarPlay/AppleCar UI. Ok for media, but the way Apple is pitching this, it would be the operating system of the whole car's UI including showing things like oil pressure and tachometer.
- iasay 4y ago
  To clarify I don't want CarPlay or iOS in the car. I want the car to have its own platform which is not connected to the non-essential functions and my iOS device can do that in isolation. The only real functions that are required for integration are audio controls and BT has already solved that.
chrisseaton 4y ago
What do you do for things like maps though?
- iasay 4y ago
  Apple Maps
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    You said you just have a Bluetooth audio connection - so you’re just listening to the readout of the directions? That doesn’t sound like a great experience.
    - iasay 4y ago
      The phone has a screen and sits on the dash. I don't use BT audio for directions, only for calls and Apple Music.
      - chrisseaton 4y ago
        > The phone has a screen and sits on the dash. It doesn’t take a leap of imagination to understand why a proper large screen, integration into the instrument cluster, and the HUD if you have one, is safer and easier to use than a tiny phone hanging off your dash. You’re also for example missing out on your car's ability to do dead reckoning when there is a poor GPS signal.
        iasay 4y ago
        Depends how badly designed your car is. Mine sits just to the top left of the steering wheel. The phone does dead reckoning as well. It has accelerometers and a compass built in.

mike_d 4y ago

They have pretty software that is shit. I don't own a Tesla, but whenever I ride with friends the center console shows an overhead type view of the other cars around. The cars randomly blink in and out, indicating it doesn't know if the other car really exists or not. A cars UI has has exactly one function: provide accurate and actionable information to the driver. You should never need to second guess the information you are receiving.

quantumduck 4y ago
Pretty much every company that tries to capture the environment around it uses a probabilistic model that takes in the raw sensor data and makes predictions about things in the surroundings. The random blinking you see on the Tesla screen is essentially saying that Tesla's model prediction confidence is borderline and changing from instance to instance. Is that great? No, but they can't do much using just vision data. What's the alternative? Show the cars even when your model is not confident anymore just for user experience reasons and give false sense of confidence? That's not ideal either. Imo I don't know any other consumer car company that shows anything like that on their cars infotainment console. Companies like Waymo and Cruise do a much better job at capturing surroundings but they are in a different market where it makes sense to spend a ton of money on each car to add many LiDARs and significant compute in the car.
- mike_d 4y ago
  > I don't know any other consumer car company that shows anything like that on their cars infotainment console. You seem to be on to something here...
- benwad 4y ago
  > What's the alternative? Just show the navigation stuff. The driver should be able to see other cars with their eyes. The car clearly isn't good enough at spotting them itself, so why further distract the driver by trying to guess?
Traubenfuchs 4y ago
> The cars randomly blink in and out, indicating it doesn't know if the other car really exists or not. The wild flickering of lines, obstacles, humans and cars in perfect clear daylight conditions is absolutely flabbergasting to me and erodes any trust I have into self driving capabilities. It's outright scary.