6 ms·

The people are different and their taste is different. One must really love Tesla’s design language. For me it’s weird with single big display in the middle and

by lnsru 4y ago

The people are different and their taste is different. One must really love Tesla’s design language. For me it’s weird with single big display in the middle and I picked competing Kia EV6 model just because of that. Tesla is/was a status symbol without competition for long time and logically it will need to adapt to the new reality. There are Mercedes EQS and EQE now. Well made luxury cars from old luxury brand with known history. There are many many new brands coming with electric vehicles in all segments and Tesla will have hard times for sure.

padjo 4y ago
The EV6 looks stunning. Tesla design feels very old and boring now. Gotta be like 6 years since they updated the design right?
- hef19898 4y ago
  I'm still looking forward to see Tesla pull off its first face lift followed by its first model update. There are still things legacy manufacturers do routinely that Tesla never did so far.
  - kjksf 4y ago
    Model S and Model X had a giant refresh of everything but the exterior. Tesla updates the cars on an ongoing basis, which is a much faster rate of innovation than a yearly refresh done by legacy car makers. Most of the changes are to the guts of the car, hence invisible. But they also do changes to exterior and interior, like removing chrome, changing center console etc. Those are not in-your-face changes but they're there. They are not changing the exterior probably because it's a good business sense to not change change a product that sells faster than you can make it. Once they have "we could make more cars than we're selling" problem, they can go back to design studio.
- kjksf 4y ago
  Both Model 3 and Model Y are best selling cars with 1 year wait list for new orders. Changing the design would be a very stupid thing to do. Don't fix what ain't broke. Unlike other car makers with yearly cadence of changes, Tesla iterates on the guts of the car on an ongoing basis. Model 3 / Y got front casting with giant casting machines. Then back casting. Then structural battery pack. Ongoing work on improving the batteries etc.
  - hef19898 4y ago
    I wouldn't call software updates the "guts of the car". Also, Covid and the war in Ukraine made sure that everyone has long lead times for new cars. Funny how that was a negative point for legacy manufacturers ("see, they can't even manage their chip supply") while it is somehow a plus for Tesla ("those cars are so in demand, Tesla can't even manufacture enough", as if not being able production to meet demand is a good thing for a hardware company...).
    - b112 4y ago
      Funny how that was a negative point for legacy manufacturers Well, Tesla didn't have a massive drop in sales, due to chip shortages, or a changed business model. When I used to buy cars, I'd swing by the dealership, find one I liked, and haggle + drive away same day. Drove by a few dealers last month. They have massive lots, which used to have 100s of cars, now bare. I've driven my car 2 years longer than normal. That's 2 years lost profit for some car maker. So yeah, it makes them look bad.
    - kjksf 4y ago
      None of the things I've listed (giga casting, structural battery pack) are software. Tesla is growing production 50%+ year-over-year. Despite pandemic, chip shortages and war. If you don't think that is balls to the walls execution then please list all the other manufacturing companies that did better than that in last 3 years. Evan Apple, widely regarded as logistics genius, recently had a month long wait for all models of mac book pro. In contrast, GM went from 10 million cars in 2016 to 6.3 in 2021 https://www.statista.com/statistics/225326/amount-of-cars-sold-by-general-motors-worldwide/#:~:text=General%20Motors%20%2D%20number%20of%20vehicles%20sold%20worldwide%202010%2D2021&text=In%202021%2C%20General%20Motors%20sold,percent%20year%2Dover%2Dyear https://www.statista.com/statistics/225326/amount-of-cars-so.... Pretty much every legacy car maker had declining sales in the last couple quarters. So yeah, I do think that comparatively Tesla is doing much better.
      - lolc 4y ago
        And here I thought the article is about a car company that tripled production within one year.
- colordrops 4y ago
  Tastes differ. The EV6 looks like a smashed crossover to me. Really not a fan of the wagon/crossover look.
- notacoward 4y ago
  Tesla design isn't so much about looking good as about looking distinctive. People have to be able to tell that it's a Tesla before they even see the logo. It's a characteristic of fashion/vanity brands in all markets. As another example, a lot of fashionable clothes or shoes are actually - and often deliberately - quite unappealing by any standards much outside the fashion industry (including "influencers") itself.
brodo 4y ago
They still have the best software. That’s why I think the new Apple Car Play is such a big deal. If everyone uses their phones OS on their car, Teslas advantage goes away.
- iasay 4y ago
  I’d rather the car has no software at all past simple audio connection myself. My current set up is a BT connection to my iOS device and it is absolutely spot on for reliability and I have full voice and tactile controls for everything.
  - andrewflnr 4y ago
    And that audio connection better be fully airgapped from every other wire in the car.
    - b112 4y ago
      The radio used to be that way. Just power essentially. I wonder, if Tesla can bootstrap, why not an EV company on the extreme low end.
  - NonNefarious 4y ago
    Exactly. The current phone "integration" into cars is bullshit, akin to the $100 AM radio rip-off of the '70s. All we've needed in cars for the last 15 years is a goddamned WELL in the dashboard to put our phones in. Have swappable plastic inserts for different phone models, and integrate a power supply and (for non-Apple victims) an audio line. "Problem" solved.
    - b112 4y ago
      Except for the profit, when you upgrade to the premium system.
      - NonNefarious 4y ago
brtkdotse 4y ago
Tesla dropped the ball going from niche bespoke vehicles to mass production. Big “senior engineer from Chernobyl” as they disregarded a lot of common automotive knowledge and opted for consumer grade components.
- colordrops 4y ago
  Can you be more specific? I've been driving mine for almost 5 years now and it's better in almost every way to every other care I've ever owned.
  - breadloaf 4y ago
    For example this [0] They used non-automotive grade LCD, which due to heat in summer will go into yellow discoloration or LCD will start leaking adhesive or will just die. [0] https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/teslas-screen-saga-shows-why-automotive-grade-matters https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/teslas-screen-saga-shows...
    - kjksf 4y ago
      Let's put things into perspective. Toyota just recalled their first EV, bz4x because, I kid you not, the wheels where falling off. I guess Toyota couldn't find automotive grade hub bolts. https://mashable.com/article/toyota-recall-bz4x#:~:text=The%20company%20is%20recalling%20a,Japan%2C%20and%2010%20for%20Canada https://mashable.com/article/toyota-recall-bz4x#:~:text=The%.... And it's not like it's an isolated thing. Cars from all car makers are being recalled for things way worse than LCD discoloration. The difference is how much press coverage even small Tesla things get compared to much more serious issues in other cars. Like Mach E which was recalled for potentially shutting down the drive train, another recall for roof not being properly bonded to the car and another for loose bolts. GM's Bolt had every single car recalled for a batter defect that could (and did) lead to explosion. Jaguar i-pace was recalled for "The front passenger seat frame may be missing fasteners, resulting in a seat frame with insufficient strength." Id.4: "An unreliable battery connection may cause a stall, increasing the risk of a crash." I'll take a yellowing lcd vs. wheels falling off.
parkingrift 4y ago
I tried out the Kia and Hyundai EV platform and found the infotainment incredibly bad. The Kia in particular is a case study in UX anti patterns. Toggles for switching the same capacitive buttons between different functions is almost a caricature of good UX in a car. The Hyundai was better, but still everything was capacitive and unintuitive. The Tesla big screen and UX is also bad, but I certainly wouldn’t put the Kia or Hyundai infotainment on a pedestal as a job well done. I am personally waiting to see what Honda or Toyota release. A bigger issue (to me) is that EVs are just too expensive. You won’t save money unless you’re comparing an EV to a luxury car. If you’re comparison shopping an EV6 against a CRV you’ll never get the numbers to work. And if you’re in the market for a luxury car would you rather have a Kia or a Tesla??
- kjksf 4y ago
  > EVs are just too expensive Per https://insideevs.com/news/586195/tesla-model3-rwd-tco-toyota-camry-2021/ https://insideevs.com/news/586195/tesla-model3-rwd-tco-toyot... 5-year Total Cost of Ownership of Model 3 SR is about the same as Toyota Camry for an average 10k miles / year driver. And that was probably calculated with the old gas prices. And if you get the new usage based insurance from Tesla (available in 8 US states) then you might additionally save on insurance (see e.g. https://twitter.com/jd_average/status/1543083099701010434 https://twitter.com/jd_average/status/1543083099701010434 saving $1.6k for 2 cars compared to Geico).
  - lxldkslwpsm 4y ago
    Lmao yeah I'm sure inside EVs dot com is unbiased Tell me, did they find the same if you buy a ten year old Tesla vs a ten year old Camry? My dad bought a 1992 Miata in 2005 for $2500 and then drove it for fifteen years. Has anyone even heard of someone buying a used Tesla?
    - b112 4y ago
      Has anyone even heard of someone buying a used Tesla? Yes! Only 2 years old though, so not a good data point. Lots of dumbassery, had to get approval from Telsa or the warranty would be void.
fjfjfjlwerklj 4y ago
>Well made luxury cars from old luxury brand with known history. I laugh whenever I hear someone talking about Tesla, etc, "disrupting" the "legacy auto industry". The "legacy auto industry" (and I'm mostly talking about the German manufacturers) are going to be just fine. After all, they are the backbone of one of the dominant EU member states. Do you really think they are going to be caught by surprise by the mandated transition to EVs?

by lnsru 4y ago

padjo 4y ago

The EV6 looks stunning. Tesla design feels very old and boring now. Gotta be like 6 years since they updated the design right?

hef19898 4y ago
I'm still looking forward to see Tesla pull off its first face lift followed by its first model update. There are still things legacy manufacturers do routinely that Tesla never did so far.
- kjksf 4y ago
  Model S and Model X had a giant refresh of everything but the exterior. Tesla updates the cars on an ongoing basis, which is a much faster rate of innovation than a yearly refresh done by legacy car makers. Most of the changes are to the guts of the car, hence invisible. But they also do changes to exterior and interior, like removing chrome, changing center console etc. Those are not in-your-face changes but they're there. They are not changing the exterior probably because it's a good business sense to not change change a product that sells faster than you can make it. Once they have "we could make more cars than we're selling" problem, they can go back to design studio.
kjksf 4y ago
Both Model 3 and Model Y are best selling cars with 1 year wait list for new orders. Changing the design would be a very stupid thing to do. Don't fix what ain't broke. Unlike other car makers with yearly cadence of changes, Tesla iterates on the guts of the car on an ongoing basis. Model 3 / Y got front casting with giant casting machines. Then back casting. Then structural battery pack. Ongoing work on improving the batteries etc.
- hef19898 4y ago
  I wouldn't call software updates the "guts of the car". Also, Covid and the war in Ukraine made sure that everyone has long lead times for new cars. Funny how that was a negative point for legacy manufacturers ("see, they can't even manage their chip supply") while it is somehow a plus for Tesla ("those cars are so in demand, Tesla can't even manufacture enough", as if not being able production to meet demand is a good thing for a hardware company...).
  - b112 4y ago
    Funny how that was a negative point for legacy manufacturers Well, Tesla didn't have a massive drop in sales, due to chip shortages, or a changed business model. When I used to buy cars, I'd swing by the dealership, find one I liked, and haggle + drive away same day. Drove by a few dealers last month. They have massive lots, which used to have 100s of cars, now bare. I've driven my car 2 years longer than normal. That's 2 years lost profit for some car maker. So yeah, it makes them look bad.
  - kjksf 4y ago
    None of the things I've listed (giga casting, structural battery pack) are software. Tesla is growing production 50%+ year-over-year. Despite pandemic, chip shortages and war. If you don't think that is balls to the walls execution then please list all the other manufacturing companies that did better than that in last 3 years. Evan Apple, widely regarded as logistics genius, recently had a month long wait for all models of mac book pro. In contrast, GM went from 10 million cars in 2016 to 6.3 in 2021 https://www.statista.com/statistics/225326/amount-of-cars-sold-by-general-motors-worldwide/#:~:text=General%20Motors%20%2D%20number%20of%20vehicles%20sold%20worldwide%202010%2D2021&text=In%202021%2C%20General%20Motors%20sold,percent%20year%2Dover%2Dyear https://www.statista.com/statistics/225326/amount-of-cars-so.... Pretty much every legacy car maker had declining sales in the last couple quarters. So yeah, I do think that comparatively Tesla is doing much better.
    - lolc 4y ago
      And here I thought the article is about a car company that tripled production within one year.
colordrops 4y ago
Tastes differ. The EV6 looks like a smashed crossover to me. Really not a fan of the wagon/crossover look.
notacoward 4y ago
Tesla design isn't so much about looking good as about looking distinctive. People have to be able to tell that it's a Tesla before they even see the logo. It's a characteristic of fashion/vanity brands in all markets. As another example, a lot of fashionable clothes or shoes are actually - and often deliberately - quite unappealing by any standards much outside the fashion industry (including "influencers") itself.

brodo 4y ago

They still have the best software. That’s why I think the new Apple Car Play is such a big deal. If everyone uses their phones OS on their car, Teslas advantage goes away.

iasay 4y ago
I’d rather the car has no software at all past simple audio connection myself. My current set up is a BT connection to my iOS device and it is absolutely spot on for reliability and I have full voice and tactile controls for everything.
- andrewflnr 4y ago
  And that audio connection better be fully airgapped from every other wire in the car.
  - b112 4y ago
    The radio used to be that way. Just power essentially. I wonder, if Tesla can bootstrap, why not an EV company on the extreme low end.
- NonNefarious 4y ago
  Exactly. The current phone "integration" into cars is bullshit, akin to the $100 AM radio rip-off of the '70s. All we've needed in cars for the last 15 years is a goddamned WELL in the dashboard to put our phones in. Have swappable plastic inserts for different phone models, and integrate a power supply and (for non-Apple victims) an audio line. "Problem" solved.
  - b112 4y ago
    Except for the profit, when you upgrade to the premium system.
    - NonNefarious 4y ago

brtkdotse 4y ago

Tesla dropped the ball going from niche bespoke vehicles to mass production. Big “senior engineer from Chernobyl” as they disregarded a lot of common automotive knowledge and opted for consumer grade components.

colordrops 4y ago
Can you be more specific? I've been driving mine for almost 5 years now and it's better in almost every way to every other care I've ever owned.
- breadloaf 4y ago
  For example this [0] They used non-automotive grade LCD, which due to heat in summer will go into yellow discoloration or LCD will start leaking adhesive or will just die. [0] https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/teslas-screen-saga-shows-why-automotive-grade-matters https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/teslas-screen-saga-shows...
  - kjksf 4y ago
    Let's put things into perspective. Toyota just recalled their first EV, bz4x because, I kid you not, the wheels where falling off. I guess Toyota couldn't find automotive grade hub bolts. https://mashable.com/article/toyota-recall-bz4x#:~:text=The%20company%20is%20recalling%20a,Japan%2C%20and%2010%20for%20Canada https://mashable.com/article/toyota-recall-bz4x#:~:text=The%.... And it's not like it's an isolated thing. Cars from all car makers are being recalled for things way worse than LCD discoloration. The difference is how much press coverage even small Tesla things get compared to much more serious issues in other cars. Like Mach E which was recalled for potentially shutting down the drive train, another recall for roof not being properly bonded to the car and another for loose bolts. GM's Bolt had every single car recalled for a batter defect that could (and did) lead to explosion. Jaguar i-pace was recalled for "The front passenger seat frame may be missing fasteners, resulting in a seat frame with insufficient strength." Id.4: "An unreliable battery connection may cause a stall, increasing the risk of a crash." I'll take a yellowing lcd vs. wheels falling off.

parkingrift 4y ago

I tried out the Kia and Hyundai EV platform and found the infotainment incredibly bad. The Kia in particular is a case study in UX anti patterns. Toggles for switching the same capacitive buttons between different functions is almost a caricature of good UX in a car. The Hyundai was better, but still everything was capacitive and unintuitive. The Tesla big screen and UX is also bad, but I certainly wouldn’t put the Kia or Hyundai infotainment on a pedestal as a job well done. I am personally waiting to see what Honda or Toyota release. A bigger issue (to me) is that EVs are just too expensive. You won’t save money unless you’re comparing an EV to a luxury car. If you’re comparison shopping an EV6 against a CRV you’ll never get the numbers to work. And if you’re in the market for a luxury car would you rather have a Kia or a Tesla??

kjksf 4y ago
> EVs are just too expensive Per https://insideevs.com/news/586195/tesla-model3-rwd-tco-toyota-camry-2021/ https://insideevs.com/news/586195/tesla-model3-rwd-tco-toyot... 5-year Total Cost of Ownership of Model 3 SR is about the same as Toyota Camry for an average 10k miles / year driver. And that was probably calculated with the old gas prices. And if you get the new usage based insurance from Tesla (available in 8 US states) then you might additionally save on insurance (see e.g. https://twitter.com/jd_average/status/1543083099701010434 https://twitter.com/jd_average/status/1543083099701010434 saving $1.6k for 2 cars compared to Geico).
- lxldkslwpsm 4y ago
  Lmao yeah I'm sure inside EVs dot com is unbiased Tell me, did they find the same if you buy a ten year old Tesla vs a ten year old Camry? My dad bought a 1992 Miata in 2005 for $2500 and then drove it for fifteen years. Has anyone even heard of someone buying a used Tesla?
  - b112 4y ago
    Has anyone even heard of someone buying a used Tesla? Yes! Only 2 years old though, so not a good data point. Lots of dumbassery, had to get approval from Telsa or the warranty would be void.

fjfjfjlwerklj 4y ago

>Well made luxury cars from old luxury brand with known history. I laugh whenever I hear someone talking about Tesla, etc, "disrupting" the "legacy auto industry". The "legacy auto industry" (and I'm mostly talking about the German manufacturers) are going to be just fine. After all, they are the backbone of one of the dominant EU member states. Do you really think they are going to be caught by surprise by the mandated transition to EVs?