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The standard for civil cases is low compared to a criminal trial where someone has to present a case of intent beyond a reasonable doubt. Suggesting that there'

The standard for civil cases is low compared to a criminal trial where someone has to present a case of intent beyond a reasonable doubt. Suggesting that there's orders from the company top to engage in racism is absurd and requires evidence. So far, as far as we are aware, it's a game of he-said-she-said between employees/supervisors. Tesla cannot blanket deny that the harassment didn't happen, but they can deny giving any such instruction to promote it. The court determined that regardless of the employees ultimately responsible for the harassment, Tesla was on the hook for paying them for the behavior. "Not doing enough" is a completely subjective measure.

socialdemocrat 4y ago
The suggestion is not that Tesla promotes racism, but that they turn a blind eye to it and ignores rampant occurrence of it. Even firing the people who complain.
dragonwriter 4y ago
> The standard for civil cases is low compared to a criminal trial where someone has to present a case of intent beyond a reasonable doubt. Criminal trials don't need to prove intent at all unless it happens to be an intent crime, and in any case commercial racism isn't a crime so...I’m not sure why were are bringing up criminal burdens of proof at all. The civil standard is preponderance of the evidence, that is what is more likely than not true based on the evidence presented. > Suggesting that there's orders from the company top to engage in racism is absurd and requires evidence. “standard operating procedure” here is a synonym of “routine practice” not “orders from the company too”; the only thing alleged about the “company top” is that “done little to nothing to reasonably prevent or stop this toxic behavior and work environment”. And, yes lawsuits require evidence and if this isn't dropped or settled before trial, there will be evidence presented and a ruling on the evidence just as the case with the other race discrimination case which Tesla lost, based on the evidence. > Tesla cannot blanket deny that the harassment didn't happen, but they can deny giving any such instruction to promote it. Then Tesla is in trouble, since they are legally responsible for preventing racial harassment and other forms of race discrimination from happening in the workplace, not just for not commanding it. > The court determined that regardless of the employees ultimately responsible for the harassment, Tesla was on the hook for paying them for the behavior. I'm not sure what you are talking about. The court hasn't determined anything, the lawsuit was just filed. And while it is true that there is some liability for harassment by any coworker, it does very much depend on the working context and who the employees doing the harassment are what the standards are, and Tesla's exposure is highest when (as in the newly filed lawsuit) the harassment and discrimination are by supervisors and managers to their subordinates.

socialdemocrat 4y ago

The suggestion is not that Tesla promotes racism, but that they turn a blind eye to it and ignores rampant occurrence of it. Even firing the people who complain.

dragonwriter 4y ago

> The standard for civil cases is low compared to a criminal trial where someone has to present a case of intent beyond a reasonable doubt. Criminal trials don't need to prove intent at all unless it happens to be an intent crime, and in any case commercial racism isn't a crime so...I’m not sure why were are bringing up criminal burdens of proof at all. The civil standard is preponderance of the evidence, that is what is more likely than not true based on the evidence presented. > Suggesting that there's orders from the company top to engage in racism is absurd and requires evidence. “standard operating procedure” here is a synonym of “routine practice” not “orders from the company too”; the only thing alleged about the “company top” is that “done little to nothing to reasonably prevent or stop this toxic behavior and work environment”. And, yes lawsuits require evidence and if this isn't dropped or settled before trial, there will be evidence presented and a ruling on the evidence just as the case with the other race discrimination case which Tesla lost, based on the evidence. > Tesla cannot blanket deny that the harassment didn't happen, but they can deny giving any such instruction to promote it. Then Tesla is in trouble, since they are legally responsible for preventing racial harassment and other forms of race discrimination from happening in the workplace, not just for not commanding it. > The court determined that regardless of the employees ultimately responsible for the harassment, Tesla was on the hook for paying them for the behavior. I'm not sure what you are talking about. The court hasn't determined anything, the lawsuit was just filed. And while it is true that there is some liability for harassment by any coworker, it does very much depend on the working context and who the employees doing the harassment are what the standards are, and Tesla's exposure is highest when (as in the newly filed lawsuit) the harassment and discrimination are by supervisors and managers to their subordinates.