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No. They aren't. Frameworks are the scaffolding, the skeleton. They dictate the shape. It's literally in the name. > : a skeletal, openwork, or structural fra

by berkes 4y ago

No. They aren't. Frameworks are the scaffolding, the skeleton. They dictate the shape. It's literally in the name. > : a skeletal, openwork, or structural frame Tools are the things you use to build within that skeleton. More pragmatic: Rails is a framework that dictates an MVC shape, with an RDS, that produces server side rendered HTML or data in a RESTfull manner. The tools you use for Rails development are your IDE, a CI, revision control, a terminal, maybe even the IAAS provider.

rat9988 4y ago
They are still tools though.
- kitsune_ 4y ago
  Maybe the word 'tool' is just not adequate and there is no 1 to 1 equivalence here. If you come from woodworking, the saw or drill doesn't end up being part of the table you build whereas the framework code is part of the actual product you build. Or in other words, if you remove the framework after you programmed your solution the solution stops working where as if you remove the drill and put it back into your bag the table still stands. I would argue there is a categorical difference at play here. So maybe words like tool, scaffolding (and even framework) are just not entirely up to the job of describing what a 'software framework' is and ultimately lead to confusion.
  - xwdv 4y ago
    Tool is an adequate word, they just need to apply it correctly. Vim is a tool. It’s used for writing code. A framework is not a tool. It is previous work that you build upon so you are not starting from scratch. It is a canvas, already assembled and sized.
croes 4y ago
A framework is a collection of tools to help you building web apps, just like a toolset for building shelves. Your toolset also dictates the shape like a screwdriver dictates the shape of the usable screws.
- berkes 4y ago
  The framework becomes part of the house, or cupboard. A screwdriver does not become part of the house. That is the semantic difference between tools and frameworks. This doesn't mean one cannot ever use a framework as a tool, or a tool as a framework. But I'd argue in those cases one stops being resp. a framework or tool and starts being a tool or framework.

by berkes 4y ago

rat9988 4y ago

They are still tools though.

kitsune_ 4y ago
Maybe the word 'tool' is just not adequate and there is no 1 to 1 equivalence here. If you come from woodworking, the saw or drill doesn't end up being part of the table you build whereas the framework code is part of the actual product you build. Or in other words, if you remove the framework after you programmed your solution the solution stops working where as if you remove the drill and put it back into your bag the table still stands. I would argue there is a categorical difference at play here. So maybe words like tool, scaffolding (and even framework) are just not entirely up to the job of describing what a 'software framework' is and ultimately lead to confusion.
- xwdv 4y ago
  Tool is an adequate word, they just need to apply it correctly. Vim is a tool. It’s used for writing code. A framework is not a tool. It is previous work that you build upon so you are not starting from scratch. It is a canvas, already assembled and sized.

croes 4y ago

A framework is a collection of tools to help you building web apps, just like a toolset for building shelves. Your toolset also dictates the shape like a screwdriver dictates the shape of the usable screws.

berkes 4y ago
The framework becomes part of the house, or cupboard. A screwdriver does not become part of the house. That is the semantic difference between tools and frameworks. This doesn't mean one cannot ever use a framework as a tool, or a tool as a framework. But I'd argue in those cases one stops being resp. a framework or tool and starts being a tool or framework.