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Is "the market" going to magically provide all the substantial benefits of an Apple-run store for apps, too? No. It's not. "The market" is going to say: sorry

by Bud 4y ago

Is "the market" going to magically provide all the substantial benefits of an Apple-run store for apps, too? No. It's not. "The market" is going to say: sorry users, fuck that, y'all can just magically research all this and provide your own security and privacy from here on out. Which is impossible, of course. Result: much poorer user experience for the vast majority of users. Which is why Apple did it their way in the first place. No, it was not because of revenue. Anyone who says that is either lying or is incredibly lazy and hasn't looked up where Apple actually makes its money.

vorpalhex 4y ago
The app store had 85B ($85,000,000,000) gross revenue in 2021. Apple made 30%. https://www.statista.com/statistics/296226/annual-apple-app-store-revenue/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/296226/annual-apple-app-... From https://revenuesandprofits.com/how-apple-makes-money-understanding-apple-business-strategy/ https://revenuesandprofits.com/how-apple-makes-money-underst..., > The devices and platforms help Apple lock-in the consumer into its ecosystem. First, Apple achieves hardware lock-in with the devices. Then, it achieves software lock-in with operating system software, application software, and third-party software and apps. Then, iCloud helps Apple achieve the data lock-in.
- stevewatson301 4y ago
  As stated elsewhere on this thread, the 30% isn’t entirely going to Apple’s pockets — they have costs such as App Store bandwidth costs, support costs for purchases made, and the likes.
  - laserlight 4y ago
    Let's say Apple pockets all 30% as profit. Who is to say Apple should or shouldn't profit that much from the App Store? Who decides how much they should profit? I find the discussion around commissions shallow and entitled. We should discuss the fundamentals: market definition, competition, abuse of power, etc. PS: In case I couldn't make it clear, my questions are not directed to parent comment.
    - account42 4y ago
      > Let's say Apple pockets all 30% as profit. Who is to say Apple should or shouldn't profit that much from the App Store? All of us. The very same society that gave Apple exclusive control over their "intellectual property" in the first place which allows them to pocket that profit without having to compete for it. The same society that pays for enforcing that exclusivity. Corporations like Apple and their business models are only allowed to exist because we think that suits us - and we should continuously reevaluate that decision and correct it when corporations do more harm than good.
      - laserlight 4y ago
        I don't think Apple rests on any intellectual property or exclusivity rights in regard to App Store, but I agree with the general idea that society should be free to exercise its right to change course. Still, I don't think it's right to decide to use this right based on a company's gross margin. The decision should be based on society's fundamental goals.
    - vorpalhex 4y ago
      Do you remember when Apple was engaged in price rigging for ebooks? https://www.nbcnews.com/businessmain/apple-faces-5-year-ban-e-book-price-rigging-conspiracy-6C10825035 https://www.nbcnews.com/businessmain/apple-faces-5-year-ban-... We already have rules about how much control a single company can have over a market and what defines a market. The app store is clearly a market. Apple has an aggressive chokehold on it that artificially inflates prices and prevents competition. As an obvious check - Amazon can't sell me ebooks through it's kindle app without Apple being involved and taking a 30% cut. That is market control and abuse. Let's say you want to build a direct competitor to an Apple product. You can't because Apple actually won't let you do the things it's apps do if you want to be listed in the store. That's called market abuse.
      - laserlight 4y ago
        > We already have rules about how much control a single company can have over a market and what defines a market. I don't know of such rules. Can you point me to them? To the contrary, there's Epic Games v. Apple case in which definition of the market is pretty narrow (digital mobile gaming transactions) compared to what you suggest (App Store in general) [0]. > That is market control and abuse. In the same case, judge decided that Apple is not a monopoly, saying “Success is not illegal.” [1] > Apple has an aggressive chokehold on it that artificially inflates prices and prevents competition. Almost all apps are free. What inflated prices are you talking about? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_Games_v._Apple#Decision https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_Games_v._Apple#Decision [1] https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/08/23/apple-versus-epic-games-fortnite-app-store-saga----the-story-so-far#ruling-declares-apples-not-a-monopoly-must-allow-alternate-payment-methods https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/08/23/apple-versus-epic...

by Bud 4y ago

vorpalhex 4y ago

The app store had 85B ($85,000,000,000) gross revenue in 2021. Apple made 30%. https://www.statista.com/statistics/296226/annual-apple-app-store-revenue/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/296226/annual-apple-app-... From https://revenuesandprofits.com/how-apple-makes-money-understanding-apple-business-strategy/ https://revenuesandprofits.com/how-apple-makes-money-underst..., > The devices and platforms help Apple lock-in the consumer into its ecosystem. First, Apple achieves hardware lock-in with the devices. Then, it achieves software lock-in with operating system software, application software, and third-party software and apps. Then, iCloud helps Apple achieve the data lock-in.

stevewatson301 4y ago
As stated elsewhere on this thread, the 30% isn’t entirely going to Apple’s pockets — they have costs such as App Store bandwidth costs, support costs for purchases made, and the likes.
- laserlight 4y ago
  Let's say Apple pockets all 30% as profit. Who is to say Apple should or shouldn't profit that much from the App Store? Who decides how much they should profit? I find the discussion around commissions shallow and entitled. We should discuss the fundamentals: market definition, competition, abuse of power, etc. PS: In case I couldn't make it clear, my questions are not directed to parent comment.
  - account42 4y ago
    > Let's say Apple pockets all 30% as profit. Who is to say Apple should or shouldn't profit that much from the App Store? All of us. The very same society that gave Apple exclusive control over their "intellectual property" in the first place which allows them to pocket that profit without having to compete for it. The same society that pays for enforcing that exclusivity. Corporations like Apple and their business models are only allowed to exist because we think that suits us - and we should continuously reevaluate that decision and correct it when corporations do more harm than good.
    - laserlight 4y ago
      I don't think Apple rests on any intellectual property or exclusivity rights in regard to App Store, but I agree with the general idea that society should be free to exercise its right to change course. Still, I don't think it's right to decide to use this right based on a company's gross margin. The decision should be based on society's fundamental goals.
  - vorpalhex 4y ago
    Do you remember when Apple was engaged in price rigging for ebooks? https://www.nbcnews.com/businessmain/apple-faces-5-year-ban-e-book-price-rigging-conspiracy-6C10825035 https://www.nbcnews.com/businessmain/apple-faces-5-year-ban-... We already have rules about how much control a single company can have over a market and what defines a market. The app store is clearly a market. Apple has an aggressive chokehold on it that artificially inflates prices and prevents competition. As an obvious check - Amazon can't sell me ebooks through it's kindle app without Apple being involved and taking a 30% cut. That is market control and abuse. Let's say you want to build a direct competitor to an Apple product. You can't because Apple actually won't let you do the things it's apps do if you want to be listed in the store. That's called market abuse.
    - laserlight 4y ago
      > We already have rules about how much control a single company can have over a market and what defines a market. I don't know of such rules. Can you point me to them? To the contrary, there's Epic Games v. Apple case in which definition of the market is pretty narrow (digital mobile gaming transactions) compared to what you suggest (App Store in general) [0]. > That is market control and abuse. In the same case, judge decided that Apple is not a monopoly, saying “Success is not illegal.” [1] > Apple has an aggressive chokehold on it that artificially inflates prices and prevents competition. Almost all apps are free. What inflated prices are you talking about? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_Games_v._Apple#Decision https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_Games_v._Apple#Decision [1] https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/08/23/apple-versus-epic-games-fortnite-app-store-saga----the-story-so-far#ruling-declares-apples-not-a-monopoly-must-allow-alternate-payment-methods https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/08/23/apple-versus-epic...