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> Isn't this how the system is designed to work? And if that's not desired, why not change the system instead? "The SCOTUS gets to make the rules" only works ab

> Isn't this how the system is designed to work? And if that's not desired, why not change the system instead? "The SCOTUS gets to make the rules" only works about half of the time, and it seems mostly like a matter of dumb luck as for when it does and doesn't. Yes, this is how the system is designed to work. It's a bad system, but the system cannot be fundamentally changed in an environment much short of political unanimity. The biggest changes to the system only came after a civil war. No system is perfect. The founding fathers did as good a job as they could at the time, but no system can work well without fundamental rethinking forever. Unfortunately, the compromises (i.e. slavery) that lead to the constitution are no longer relevant, but we are left with a system that is difficult to change specifically to protect those compromises. > Using the courts to enforce uncodified abortion rights is like using a shoe to beat a nail in; it's pointlessly brutal, and makes a mockery of the rule of law. I get that it may be expedient for a specific purpose, but why do people celebrate it as a good system in the abstract? It's not a good system, and people don't celebrate it as such. Pretty much everyone recognizes that lifetime appointments of un-elected individuals to the supreme court has serious drawbacks. But it's the only way to preserve rights within the current system, and people would prefer that to another civil war.

heartbeats 4y ago
> Yes, this is how the system is designed to work. It's a bad system, but the system cannot be fundamentally changed in an environment much short of political unanimity. The biggest changes to the system only came after a civil war. > No system is perfect. The founding fathers did as good a job as they could at the time, but no system can work well without fundamental rethinking forever. Why not rethink it, then? I understand that there was a civil war before, but doesn't secession make way more sense now? If only the Democratic states participate, then the necessary consensus to make serious changes (e.g. European-style parliamentary democracy) would be much easier; the Republicans would maybe also tolerate it, given that it would allow them to introduce the laws that they wanted to. How are you going to keep your country together with the way things are currently going?
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > I understand that there was a civil war before, but doesn't secession make way more sense now? No, it doesn't. The idea that basic human rights are of subordinate priority to sovereignty and something that we will just agree to disagree on has less currency now than in the 1860s; secession as a means of handling this kind of disagreement made much more sense then than now, and it didn't make a lot then, either.
  - heartbeats 4y ago
    So what's the strategy then? To be blunt, it doesn't seem to me like the US and human rights are going to have the best possible relationship in the next 10-20 years. Wouldn't it be better then to cut away from it?
- StewardMcOy 4y ago
  I basically agree with everything dragonwriter said, but I'd like to add. > How are you going to keep your country together with the way things are currently going? I can't dismiss the possibility that this may come to another civil war, but it would be catastrophic. It's not just that war is bad. The world's largest superpower and nuclear power going to war with itself will end poorly for the entire world. If a civil war between somewhat equal forces breaks out, the sides will not restrain themselves. It's imperative that another civil war is prevented if at all possible. Luckily, I don't think it's inevitable. As divided as we are, all sides still see themselves first and foremost as Americans. Even those who fly Confederate flags virtue signal all the time about how proud they are to be American. This is not Scotland or Catalonia, where there's a distinct national identity. Even those whose identities are wrapped up in the states in which they live still consider themselves foremost American. And that's why, even though some may call to secede from Republican states, I don't think it will go anywhere. We have family and friends in those states. We don't want to abandon them to state governments that will treat them as inferior citizens based on race, sex, etc. It would be like Germany volunteering to be split into east and west following WWII.
  - heartbeats 4y ago

heartbeats 4y ago

> Yes, this is how the system is designed to work. It's a bad system, but the system cannot be fundamentally changed in an environment much short of political unanimity. The biggest changes to the system only came after a civil war. > No system is perfect. The founding fathers did as good a job as they could at the time, but no system can work well without fundamental rethinking forever. Why not rethink it, then? I understand that there was a civil war before, but doesn't secession make way more sense now? If only the Democratic states participate, then the necessary consensus to make serious changes (e.g. European-style parliamentary democracy) would be much easier; the Republicans would maybe also tolerate it, given that it would allow them to introduce the laws that they wanted to. How are you going to keep your country together with the way things are currently going?

dragonwriter 4y ago
> I understand that there was a civil war before, but doesn't secession make way more sense now? No, it doesn't. The idea that basic human rights are of subordinate priority to sovereignty and something that we will just agree to disagree on has less currency now than in the 1860s; secession as a means of handling this kind of disagreement made much more sense then than now, and it didn't make a lot then, either.
- heartbeats 4y ago
  So what's the strategy then? To be blunt, it doesn't seem to me like the US and human rights are going to have the best possible relationship in the next 10-20 years. Wouldn't it be better then to cut away from it?
StewardMcOy 4y ago
I basically agree with everything dragonwriter said, but I'd like to add. > How are you going to keep your country together with the way things are currently going? I can't dismiss the possibility that this may come to another civil war, but it would be catastrophic. It's not just that war is bad. The world's largest superpower and nuclear power going to war with itself will end poorly for the entire world. If a civil war between somewhat equal forces breaks out, the sides will not restrain themselves. It's imperative that another civil war is prevented if at all possible. Luckily, I don't think it's inevitable. As divided as we are, all sides still see themselves first and foremost as Americans. Even those who fly Confederate flags virtue signal all the time about how proud they are to be American. This is not Scotland or Catalonia, where there's a distinct national identity. Even those whose identities are wrapped up in the states in which they live still consider themselves foremost American. And that's why, even though some may call to secede from Republican states, I don't think it will go anywhere. We have family and friends in those states. We don't want to abandon them to state governments that will treat them as inferior citizens based on race, sex, etc. It would be like Germany volunteering to be split into east and west following WWII.
- heartbeats 4y ago