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Exactly. This is the popup for app store personalized ads[0], which is a full-screen popup that forces you to choose one or the other before you can access the

by judge2020 4y ago

Exactly. This is the popup for app store personalized ads[0], which is a full-screen popup that forces you to choose one or the other before you can access the app. It's super transparent and easy to decline the personalization. 0: https://videoweek.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Apple-permission-1.jpg https://videoweek.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Apple-permi...

majewsky 4y ago
I wonder how many people actually register that there are two buttons at the bottom? It's very obvious to power-users like us since we're used to [ Accept ] Cancel at this point, but I can only imagine the borderless design for the secondary button originating from a dark pattern.
- samatman 4y ago
  The entire iOS operating system works that way now. I dislike it. I think buttons should be buttons. But this isn't a special case, so unless you consider every instance of two buttons looking this way a dark pattern, this one isn't either.
  - ayntkilove 4y ago
    Personally I find it subconsciously mirrors how we interact with classic HTML. A button posts, a link gets. As a step in the device setup, the button infers some form of enablement or configuration while a link is perfect for skipping.
    - samatman 4y ago
      That's a reasonable perspective that I hadn't considered, and probably makes even more sense to people who barely used/use desktops in the first place. I still don't like it! But I also never had any trouble using it. Except Apple Music. Don't get me started.
  - account42 4y ago
    > unless you consider every instance of two buttons looking this way a dark pattern The entire point of this pattern is to guide the user into a "default" option so using it for anything where the user is suppposed to provide informed consent is a dark pattern. The only places where it is not a dark pattern is where default choice actually aligns with the interest of the average user and I think that is hard to argue for a choice whose purpose is primarily to be allowed to better manipulate the user into spending more.
  - emn13 4y ago
    That pattern may be reasonable for "Are you sure" kind of requests for actions that the user explicitly wanted - because then there really is a sane default; we expect the user didn't click on some button by accident. But it's not reasonable to portray questions that are asking the user to agree to something they did not explicitly want; that's just trying to trick the user to make the annoying popup go away by clicking the big button. There's no sane default here, so none should be preselected (and ideally, the layout of confirmation dialogs and agreement dialogs would not be identical in the first place). It's a dark pattern, and I really doubt it's accidental.
efaref 4y ago
What's the one for third-party apps? How different is the wording?
markdown 4y ago
The only button they provide is for accepting ads. To say no, they provide a link. That's a dark pattern.
- ihuman 4y ago
  The bottom one isn't a button?
  - Timwi 4y ago
    It doesn't matter what you call it. It doesn't look like a button to the vast majority of non-techies. That makes it a dark pattern.
- afiori 4y ago
  That is at most a slightly shadowy pattern, it is the equivalent of saying "please select this one". Darker patterns would be a preselected checkbox with a ok button or a default consent with a "go to settings to update your selection". This is a "Personalized Ads" popup with an On and Off option, it looks pretty ok to me.

majewsky 4y ago

I wonder how many people actually register that there are two buttons at the bottom? It's very obvious to power-users like us since we're used to [ Accept ] Cancel at this point, but I can only imagine the borderless design for the secondary button originating from a dark pattern.

samatman 4y ago
The entire iOS operating system works that way now. I dislike it. I think buttons should be buttons. But this isn't a special case, so unless you consider every instance of two buttons looking this way a dark pattern, this one isn't either.
- ayntkilove 4y ago
  Personally I find it subconsciously mirrors how we interact with classic HTML. A button posts, a link gets. As a step in the device setup, the button infers some form of enablement or configuration while a link is perfect for skipping.
  - samatman 4y ago
    That's a reasonable perspective that I hadn't considered, and probably makes even more sense to people who barely used/use desktops in the first place. I still don't like it! But I also never had any trouble using it. Except Apple Music. Don't get me started.
- account42 4y ago
  > unless you consider every instance of two buttons looking this way a dark pattern The entire point of this pattern is to guide the user into a "default" option so using it for anything where the user is suppposed to provide informed consent is a dark pattern. The only places where it is not a dark pattern is where default choice actually aligns with the interest of the average user and I think that is hard to argue for a choice whose purpose is primarily to be allowed to better manipulate the user into spending more.
- emn13 4y ago
  That pattern may be reasonable for "Are you sure" kind of requests for actions that the user explicitly wanted - because then there really is a sane default; we expect the user didn't click on some button by accident. But it's not reasonable to portray questions that are asking the user to agree to something they did not explicitly want; that's just trying to trick the user to make the annoying popup go away by clicking the big button. There's no sane default here, so none should be preselected (and ideally, the layout of confirmation dialogs and agreement dialogs would not be identical in the first place). It's a dark pattern, and I really doubt it's accidental.

efaref 4y ago

What's the one for third-party apps? How different is the wording?

markdown 4y ago

The only button they provide is for accepting ads. To say no, they provide a link. That's a dark pattern.

ihuman 4y ago
The bottom one isn't a button?
- Timwi 4y ago
  It doesn't matter what you call it. It doesn't look like a button to the vast majority of non-techies. That makes it a dark pattern.
afiori 4y ago
That is at most a slightly shadowy pattern, it is the equivalent of saying "please select this one". Darker patterns would be a preselected checkbox with a ok button or a default consent with a "go to settings to update your selection". This is a "Personalized Ads" popup with an On and Off option, it looks pretty ok to me.