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> Apps will use near-field communication technology and other mechanisms to track us So, then do not allow any apps the NFC permission... problem solved. The

> Apps will use near-field communication technology and other mechanisms to track us So, then do not allow any apps the NFC permission... problem solved. The point is, Apple should not be the one dictating what users can and can not use; Example: on macOS you can disable SIP. 99% of the people i know do not even know what SIP is, nor that this possibility exists. However, if we/Developers/researchers/etc. want it, they can choose to do as they like. Which is really useful. Researchers should not be limited in finding (security) flaws, neither should users be limited by Apple to use their hardware as they wish.

threeseed 4y ago
> So, then do not allow any apps the NFC permission... problem solved. So the world of malware, viruses, data exfiltration, phishing etc is "solved ?
martimarkov 4y ago
The main problem is that users can be tricked to do it. Used to happen to my parents all the time on Android. They'd install random apps and the website will "guide" them how to install this app by going to settings and enabling "untrusted developers". This is my issue with all these devs screaming at apple. Your customers chose a product for whatever reason. Don't like it? I don't care - respect their choices. It speaks volumes to me how much they will respect me and my privacy when they want to optimise for their own profits instead of my XP and privacy.
- DavideNL 4y ago
  > "The main problem is that users can be tricked to do it." That's because the GUI is badly implemented; On macOS, your parents would never disable SIP (system integrity protection), because it's quite cumbersome to disable and there are enough warnings and hurdles. This is already has been reality for years: it is simply not an issue.
- dingleberry420 4y ago
  What happened to personal agency? Let people make mistakes, you don't need to infantilize them.
  - bun_at_work 4y ago
    People are easy to manipulate at scale. The idea that people are rational agents who can make educated decisions as consumers is deeply flawed. Yes, people _can_ make educated decisions, but more often than not, they don't have the requisite knowledge to make an informed decision. Letting those consumers get scammed because they aren't technical enough isn't a good solution to complicated problems.
    - dingleberry420 4y ago
      - oblio 4y ago
        There are middle points in there, before your extreme.
        thrown_22 4y ago
        What extreme? Letting people decide what permissions on their apps is the middle ground. The extremes are letting Apple decide what you can and can't run on your phone, or letting apps decide what you can or can't run on your phone. That some people are too ignorant to set phone permissions is their problem. We still sell sharp knives even though people cut themselves all the time. Demanding Apple protect us is the digital equivalent of banning anything sharper than a butter knife.
        oblio 4y ago
        There's a ton of regulation for knives and everything you can think of, and where there isn't, we call it "the Wild West" and it's not a compliment.
- sedatk 4y ago
  Apple has a harsher review process for such practices.
- cafxx 4y ago
  Not sure I buy the argument. By that logic, Apple should only allow phone calls from callers they consider trusted, because any call originating from a non-trusted phone number may be a scam phone call, and someone may fall for it. Do scam phone call exists? Yes. Do people fall for it? Yes. Does apple block all untrusted phone calls, with no opt-out, as a result of this? (AFAIK) No. (I could also make the same or similar arguments for web pages, music, podcasts, books, movies, or even apps on their other OS and so on... but phone calls seemed the simplest one to present succinctly.)
  - chrischen 4y ago
    That was ground already lost by the time Apple introduced a phone. Sort of like how they can’t lock down macOS in the same way. But given iOS was a fresh start they locked it down from the start so they didn’t have to claw that locked down experience back.
- theshrike79 4y ago
  This is why I've bought my mother in law and my mother (both retirement age) an iPhone SE. Zero support calls since then. I don't have to worry about them installing some spyware crap on their phone, Apple is taking care of that. All I actually need to do is to educate them not to click on any link in any message, email or SMS. And not to buy anything over the phone.

threeseed 4y ago

> So, then do not allow any apps the NFC permission... problem solved. So the world of malware, viruses, data exfiltration, phishing etc is "solved ?

martimarkov 4y ago

The main problem is that users can be tricked to do it. Used to happen to my parents all the time on Android. They'd install random apps and the website will "guide" them how to install this app by going to settings and enabling "untrusted developers". This is my issue with all these devs screaming at apple. Your customers chose a product for whatever reason. Don't like it? I don't care - respect their choices. It speaks volumes to me how much they will respect me and my privacy when they want to optimise for their own profits instead of my XP and privacy.

DavideNL 4y ago
> "The main problem is that users can be tricked to do it." That's because the GUI is badly implemented; On macOS, your parents would never disable SIP (system integrity protection), because it's quite cumbersome to disable and there are enough warnings and hurdles. This is already has been reality for years: it is simply not an issue.
dingleberry420 4y ago
What happened to personal agency? Let people make mistakes, you don't need to infantilize them.
- bun_at_work 4y ago
  People are easy to manipulate at scale. The idea that people are rational agents who can make educated decisions as consumers is deeply flawed. Yes, people _can_ make educated decisions, but more often than not, they don't have the requisite knowledge to make an informed decision. Letting those consumers get scammed because they aren't technical enough isn't a good solution to complicated problems.
  - dingleberry420 4y ago
    - oblio 4y ago
      There are middle points in there, before your extreme.
      - thrown_22 4y ago
        What extreme? Letting people decide what permissions on their apps is the middle ground. The extremes are letting Apple decide what you can and can't run on your phone, or letting apps decide what you can or can't run on your phone. That some people are too ignorant to set phone permissions is their problem. We still sell sharp knives even though people cut themselves all the time. Demanding Apple protect us is the digital equivalent of banning anything sharper than a butter knife.
        oblio 4y ago
        There's a ton of regulation for knives and everything you can think of, and where there isn't, we call it "the Wild West" and it's not a compliment.
sedatk 4y ago
Apple has a harsher review process for such practices.
cafxx 4y ago
Not sure I buy the argument. By that logic, Apple should only allow phone calls from callers they consider trusted, because any call originating from a non-trusted phone number may be a scam phone call, and someone may fall for it. Do scam phone call exists? Yes. Do people fall for it? Yes. Does apple block all untrusted phone calls, with no opt-out, as a result of this? (AFAIK) No. (I could also make the same or similar arguments for web pages, music, podcasts, books, movies, or even apps on their other OS and so on... but phone calls seemed the simplest one to present succinctly.)
- chrischen 4y ago
  That was ground already lost by the time Apple introduced a phone. Sort of like how they can’t lock down macOS in the same way. But given iOS was a fresh start they locked it down from the start so they didn’t have to claw that locked down experience back.
theshrike79 4y ago
This is why I've bought my mother in law and my mother (both retirement age) an iPhone SE. Zero support calls since then. I don't have to worry about them installing some spyware crap on their phone, Apple is taking care of that. All I actually need to do is to educate them not to click on any link in any message, email or SMS. And not to buy anything over the phone.