3 ms·

So far everyone complaining about app lockouts have been laser-focused on phones, because they're general-purpose and thus easier to legally justify sideloading

So far everyone complaining about app lockouts have been laser-focused on phones, because they're general-purpose and thus easier to legally justify sideloading on. Nobody wants to talk about game consoles - to open them up would almost certainly require revisiting DMCA 1201[0] and removing the prohibition on circumvention tools. The US Copyright Office wouldn't entertain extending the current "mobile devices"[1] jailbreaking exception to consoles, and Epic Games had to do all sorts of mental gymnastics to explain why Apple was a monopolist but Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony weren't. [0] Or your local equivalent. And yes, you do have a local equivalent, unless you are living in Iran, Afghanistan, or North Korea. [1] Phones and tablet computers.

EMIRELADERO 4y ago
> to open them up would almost certainly require revisiting DMCA 1201[0] and removing the prohibition on circumvention tools. That law only forbids bypassing protection measures exclusively related to protecting access to a specific copyrighted work. Getting root on consoles isn't that.
- kmeisthax 4y ago
  That's section A of DMCA 1201 that you're thinking of. There's also section B that forbids circumvention tools and that's way broader than the first part. The law distinguishes between breaking DRM, which can be OK in certain circumstances, and telling people how to break DRM, which is always illegal if you can allege some path from your tool to piracy. And, believe me, it is actually pretty difficult to give someone a homebrew installation vector that does not also give you the ability to just pirate games at all. While there have been some homebrew scenes that deliberately added barriers to piracy[0], there's also been cases where piracy was the only hack you could even pull off[1]. Remember: if you have the ability to install your own code, then you can also install someone else's. Whether or not a jailbreak or homebrew installer would be considered a DMCA 1201 circumvention tool is something a judge would have to decide, but it's close enough to the line that I wouldn't personally touch exploit development. [0] Off the top of my head: before A9LH/B9S, 3DS homebrew launchers could only run a custom executable format... though this was moreso for compatibility with the GPU DMA exploit they were using first and antipiracy was just a bonus. The Wii scene was also extremely opposed to piracy thanks to Team Twiizers pushing hard against it. [1] Also off the top of my head: the whole mess with 360 drivechip hacks that sucked all the talent away from actual homebrew enablement.
  - EMIRELADERO 4y ago
    My reasoning goes something like this: Both sections of the DMCA don't protect against tools (and trafficking of tools) that can make piracy easier in an indirect way or somehow pave the way for ease of access to pirate conduct. What they only forbid is circumventing copyright protection systems that protect a specific work. Same goes for the anti-trafficking provisions. The statue reads "without the authority of the copyright owner" in the end. That sentence implies that the bypassed protections must protect a specific copyrighted work, not copyright in general. Otherwise there would be no "copyright owner" to authorise the bypassing as the law is currently written.
madeofpalk 4y ago
> Nobody wants to talk about game consoles They're talked about a fair bit tbh. All sorts of proposed legislature often goes to pains to say "except game consoles". The role of game consoles was brought up a fair bit in the Epic v. Apple lawsuit.
- judge2020 4y ago
  > goes to pains to say "except game consoles" For no good reason. Both are effectively media consoles with the streaming apps available, and the xbox has a browser just the same as Apple[0], you can do your banking from it if you so choose (and some people saw that appeal a while ago[1]). The only difference is the form factor and the price point where the consoles are sold near-cost[2] - apple would throw in $500 worth of rare earth material if it meant they could keep their app store revenue model. 0: https://support.xbox.com/en-US/help/hardware-network/console/use-microsoft-edge-on-xbox https://support.xbox.com/en-US/help/hardware-network/console... 1: https://distantarcade.co.uk/online-banking-snes-1998-tran-direct/ https://distantarcade.co.uk/online-banking-snes-1998-tran-di... 2: https://www.polygon.com/2021/2/3/22264242/playstation-5-sales-loss-manufacturing-costs-msrp-sony https://www.polygon.com/2021/2/3/22264242/playstation-5-sale...
tsimionescu 4y ago
> to open them up would almost certainly require revisiting DMCA 1201[0] and removing the prohibition on circumvention tools This is a non-sequitur. If there were a new law that requires Sony and Nintendo to offer side-loading on their platforms, they would have every right to do so, as they own the copyright of those platforms. The DMCA protects copyright holders from the actions of others, it puts no limits on their own actions. If Sony wanted to break into your PS3, you wouldn't have any standing under the DMCA to sue them about it (of course, there are other laws that protect your data, your past contracts etc).

EMIRELADERO 4y ago

> to open them up would almost certainly require revisiting DMCA 1201[0] and removing the prohibition on circumvention tools. That law only forbids bypassing protection measures exclusively related to protecting access to a specific copyrighted work. Getting root on consoles isn't that.

kmeisthax 4y ago
That's section A of DMCA 1201 that you're thinking of. There's also section B that forbids circumvention tools and that's way broader than the first part. The law distinguishes between breaking DRM, which can be OK in certain circumstances, and telling people how to break DRM, which is always illegal if you can allege some path from your tool to piracy. And, believe me, it is actually pretty difficult to give someone a homebrew installation vector that does not also give you the ability to just pirate games at all. While there have been some homebrew scenes that deliberately added barriers to piracy[0], there's also been cases where piracy was the only hack you could even pull off[1]. Remember: if you have the ability to install your own code, then you can also install someone else's. Whether or not a jailbreak or homebrew installer would be considered a DMCA 1201 circumvention tool is something a judge would have to decide, but it's close enough to the line that I wouldn't personally touch exploit development. [0] Off the top of my head: before A9LH/B9S, 3DS homebrew launchers could only run a custom executable format... though this was moreso for compatibility with the GPU DMA exploit they were using first and antipiracy was just a bonus. The Wii scene was also extremely opposed to piracy thanks to Team Twiizers pushing hard against it. [1] Also off the top of my head: the whole mess with 360 drivechip hacks that sucked all the talent away from actual homebrew enablement.
- EMIRELADERO 4y ago
  My reasoning goes something like this: Both sections of the DMCA don't protect against tools (and trafficking of tools) that can make piracy easier in an indirect way or somehow pave the way for ease of access to pirate conduct. What they only forbid is circumventing copyright protection systems that protect a specific work. Same goes for the anti-trafficking provisions. The statue reads "without the authority of the copyright owner" in the end. That sentence implies that the bypassed protections must protect a specific copyrighted work, not copyright in general. Otherwise there would be no "copyright owner" to authorise the bypassing as the law is currently written.

madeofpalk 4y ago

> Nobody wants to talk about game consoles They're talked about a fair bit tbh. All sorts of proposed legislature often goes to pains to say "except game consoles". The role of game consoles was brought up a fair bit in the Epic v. Apple lawsuit.

judge2020 4y ago
> goes to pains to say "except game consoles" For no good reason. Both are effectively media consoles with the streaming apps available, and the xbox has a browser just the same as Apple[0], you can do your banking from it if you so choose (and some people saw that appeal a while ago[1]). The only difference is the form factor and the price point where the consoles are sold near-cost[2] - apple would throw in $500 worth of rare earth material if it meant they could keep their app store revenue model. 0: https://support.xbox.com/en-US/help/hardware-network/console/use-microsoft-edge-on-xbox https://support.xbox.com/en-US/help/hardware-network/console... 1: https://distantarcade.co.uk/online-banking-snes-1998-tran-direct/ https://distantarcade.co.uk/online-banking-snes-1998-tran-di... 2: https://www.polygon.com/2021/2/3/22264242/playstation-5-sales-loss-manufacturing-costs-msrp-sony https://www.polygon.com/2021/2/3/22264242/playstation-5-sale...

tsimionescu 4y ago

> to open them up would almost certainly require revisiting DMCA 1201[0] and removing the prohibition on circumvention tools This is a non-sequitur. If there were a new law that requires Sony and Nintendo to offer side-loading on their platforms, they would have every right to do so, as they own the copyright of those platforms. The DMCA protects copyright holders from the actions of others, it puts no limits on their own actions. If Sony wanted to break into your PS3, you wouldn't have any standing under the DMCA to sue them about it (of course, there are other laws that protect your data, your past contracts etc).