7 ms·

Shops and many other places have had video cameras for decades to deter theft and crime so people are used to it.

nsv 4y ago
The key difference here is that most CCTV up to this point has not been high resolution enough to run facial detection on.
- april_22 4y ago
  Yes but it wouldnt cost that much to replace those with newer, higher resolution ones.
kypro 4y ago
They're completely different. This is solely for intimidation purposes. Cameras previously would show a wide angle view of the store so you can see when someone put something under their jacket, etc. I can understand and accept this. In comparison these new cameras have a very swallow angle of view, they're zoomed in on your face and they're in portrait. They would be completely useless if you wanted to see if someone was, say, putting something under their jacket at checkout. These are there to purposefully record your face and let you know that they're doing that full colour and HD whether you like it or not. It's vile and extremely rude. I've never signed an agreement accepting such an obtrusive and unreasonable violation of my privacy when I enter a supermarket - at least online I'd have to accept T&Cs before placing my order.
- emsixteen 4y ago
  100% agreed on this, and have no idea how to tackle it.
  - lowercased 4y ago
    Stop shopping at those places? But... if you have stuff from them delivered, should you turn the tables and have your own face recog stuff turned on them?
    - danudey 4y ago
      You're not turning the tables on them, you're turning the tables on the random gig economy worker who got assigned your delivery. It's not like the CEO of the pharmacy chain is delivering your case of red bull or something.
  - ldite 4y ago
    Put a bag over the camera before beginning your transaction!
    - jonhohle 4y ago
      I was somewhat hoping full face mask/helmet wearing would become in vogue in the past two years with all of the masking requirements like we see in so many sci-fi shows and movies. Algorithms would move to gate analysis or other things, but at least facial recognition could be crossed off. If a air born pandemic can’t move society in that direction, I fear that we’ll never get to our perpetually masked future.
    - emsixteen 4y ago
      You planning on sneaking up on the camera from behind?
  - adolph 4y ago
    Ideas to tackle it: Wear your covid mask, sunglasses and sunhat everywhere. Also put heel inserts in your shoes to change your height/walking gait. Or just go full privacy burka with a headshape altering chef's hat or mitznefet.
    - richardhod 4y ago
      if you do that everywhere, they'll still be able to find you, via your new pseudo-identity
- jrimbault 4y ago
  > These are there to purposefully record your face and let you know that they're doing that full colour and HD whether you like it or not. I believe (?) this, as it is stated above, would be illegal in France under the current laws. You have to consent to be the _subject_ of photography in a public place. Of course, advocates of such systems would argue against that easily.
  - BeetleB 4y ago
    In the US, this is solved by posting signs that recording is in progress and by entering you consent.
  - vanattab 4y ago
    Really? Security cameras are illegal in france?
    - jrimbault 4y ago
      The difference is in the intent. A security camera films a place and doesn't focus on individuals. If the camera were to run software that would autofocus on a person, that would make them a subject, there would need to be consent. You'll find a helpful diagram (though incomplete) on this page https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droit_%C3%A0_l%27image https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droit_%C3%A0_l%27image (French), and there's of course (as anything legal, it's a rabbit hole) more specific laws concerning security camera.
      - vanattab 4y ago
        But surely the only point of security cameras is to montior people? Your not watching to make sure the safe didn't grow legs and walk off.
- daniel-cussen 4y ago
  I went to a Walmart subsidiary recently, called Líder, and they pulled every bitchvictim move the could pull. More in fact, I now legally have standing to sue for abduction for April 17, 2022 15:49:22 hour at the Líder at 560 Merced (which gives receipts as Walmart) and sent six guards at me claiming I didn't pay, herding me back to their grounds where they have total editorial control over their cameras--but none were interested in looking at a receipt. I started screaming "If you accuse me of theft you have to call the real police!" And a pharmacist across the street heard me and called my family, they showed up with a lawyer who agreed it was highly abusive of their power (these guys wore clothes that said SWAT). At that point, if the supermarket will accuse me of theft despite paying, DUDE! Everyone has the moral authority to steal from Líder. Líder toes the line of theft literally down to the micrometer (ie shaving microns of plastic) and prostitutes lawyers to say they never steal. They steal, but defend themselves legalistically, ie shitloads of lawyers showing up doing bitch moves quoting laws that were written by culpable serial rapists in the 1973 coup. Economic theft. If you're going to be falsely accused unconditionally you're obliged to fulfill the accusation with real harm in some way on the grounds that you will be persecuted anyway. It's acting in self-defense, because false accusations of violence are an exactly equivalent act of violence in the opposite direction. And you can't let magic spells disarm you, there's always going to be some conspiratorial threat--just like 7 Walmart employees conspired against me that day, the cashier CE. NEWEN and the 6 guards, all of whom knew they were carrying out a crime. I personally refuse to carry out this theft myself or benefit from this because it would stain my heroism, but they'll accuse anybody of stealing either way. I'll show up to testify on your behalf if you quote me on this, as a hero according to Roman Law from May 12, 2012, like in US or in Chile which are based on Roman Law I boycotted Líder, funny thing abduction, guess that's a good description of their market power, they can do all kinds of shit (though in America I was basically satisfied with their business against Amazon), the only thing limiting their total market dominance is the percent of people they abduct. And I only boycott them 90%, that's the trick, when they make a crazy effort to break they boycott I yield in an un-constructive way. Dude you can totally buy in like a crappy little store run by immigrants which has no Facial Recognition. That's what you have to do. Otherwise, go without. Live downtown. Else you get HD deepfakes INCLUDING framing you as stealing from them in their camera editing zone or, if you sue them, making porn with your face like the kids in school do with photoshop, cyberbullying. There's media blackout on that. I talked about this abduction here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31306746 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31306746
- coding123 4y ago
  Well, I'm covered I guess - still wearing a mask.
  - fuckcensorship 4y ago
    Wearing a mask will not protect you from facial recognition technology: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-japan-facial-recog/masks-no-obstacle-for-new-nec-facial-recognition-system-idUSKBN29C0JZ https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-japan-...
    - danudey 4y ago
      > The technology firm had already been working on a system to meet the needs of allergy sufferers who wear masks Yes, it's the needs of the allergy sufferers that drove this project from the start. Hi NEC, I wear a mask because of allergies but I'm worried that will prevent private corporations and governments from tracking my every move, can you fix this please?
- tfussell 4y ago
  My understanding is that these aren't for intimidation but rather to reduce theft by giving people an outside view of themselves. A mirror can also serve this purpose, but may be more difficult to fit in certain spaces. If this is correct, then these cameras aren't recording, just displaying the image directly on the screen. Here's an article about it https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/blogs/et-commentary/mirrors-could-reduce-stealing-or-dishonesty-and-could-even-be-seen-as-a-good-alternative-to-video-surveillance/ https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/blogs/et-commentary/mir...
  - jaywalk 4y ago
    All of the ones I've seen specifically say "RECORDING IN PROGRESS" on the screen. Could they be lying? Sure, but I doubt they are.
m463 4y ago
In about 2000 a friend of mine worked in las vegas. At that time, they used facial recognition to identify everyone coming in the door to detect card counters and other troublemakers. They shared this information widely among all the casinos. It is > 20 years later now... I wonder how accommodating they are when a whale walks in?

nsv 4y ago

The key difference here is that most CCTV up to this point has not been high resolution enough to run facial detection on.

april_22 4y ago
Yes but it wouldnt cost that much to replace those with newer, higher resolution ones.

kypro 4y ago

They're completely different. This is solely for intimidation purposes. Cameras previously would show a wide angle view of the store so you can see when someone put something under their jacket, etc. I can understand and accept this. In comparison these new cameras have a very swallow angle of view, they're zoomed in on your face and they're in portrait. They would be completely useless if you wanted to see if someone was, say, putting something under their jacket at checkout. These are there to purposefully record your face and let you know that they're doing that full colour and HD whether you like it or not. It's vile and extremely rude. I've never signed an agreement accepting such an obtrusive and unreasonable violation of my privacy when I enter a supermarket - at least online I'd have to accept T&Cs before placing my order.

emsixteen 4y ago
100% agreed on this, and have no idea how to tackle it.
- lowercased 4y ago
  Stop shopping at those places? But... if you have stuff from them delivered, should you turn the tables and have your own face recog stuff turned on them?
  - danudey 4y ago
    You're not turning the tables on them, you're turning the tables on the random gig economy worker who got assigned your delivery. It's not like the CEO of the pharmacy chain is delivering your case of red bull or something.
- ldite 4y ago
  Put a bag over the camera before beginning your transaction!
  - jonhohle 4y ago
    I was somewhat hoping full face mask/helmet wearing would become in vogue in the past two years with all of the masking requirements like we see in so many sci-fi shows and movies. Algorithms would move to gate analysis or other things, but at least facial recognition could be crossed off. If a air born pandemic can’t move society in that direction, I fear that we’ll never get to our perpetually masked future.
  - emsixteen 4y ago
    You planning on sneaking up on the camera from behind?
- adolph 4y ago
  Ideas to tackle it: Wear your covid mask, sunglasses and sunhat everywhere. Also put heel inserts in your shoes to change your height/walking gait. Or just go full privacy burka with a headshape altering chef's hat or mitznefet.
  - richardhod 4y ago
    if you do that everywhere, they'll still be able to find you, via your new pseudo-identity
jrimbault 4y ago
> These are there to purposefully record your face and let you know that they're doing that full colour and HD whether you like it or not. I believe (?) this, as it is stated above, would be illegal in France under the current laws. You have to consent to be the _subject_ of photography in a public place. Of course, advocates of such systems would argue against that easily.
- BeetleB 4y ago
  In the US, this is solved by posting signs that recording is in progress and by entering you consent.
- vanattab 4y ago
  Really? Security cameras are illegal in france?
  - jrimbault 4y ago
    The difference is in the intent. A security camera films a place and doesn't focus on individuals. If the camera were to run software that would autofocus on a person, that would make them a subject, there would need to be consent. You'll find a helpful diagram (though incomplete) on this page https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droit_%C3%A0_l%27image https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droit_%C3%A0_l%27image (French), and there's of course (as anything legal, it's a rabbit hole) more specific laws concerning security camera.
    - vanattab 4y ago
      But surely the only point of security cameras is to montior people? Your not watching to make sure the safe didn't grow legs and walk off.
daniel-cussen 4y ago
I went to a Walmart subsidiary recently, called Líder, and they pulled every bitchvictim move the could pull. More in fact, I now legally have standing to sue for abduction for April 17, 2022 15:49:22 hour at the Líder at 560 Merced (which gives receipts as Walmart) and sent six guards at me claiming I didn't pay, herding me back to their grounds where they have total editorial control over their cameras--but none were interested in looking at a receipt. I started screaming "If you accuse me of theft you have to call the real police!" And a pharmacist across the street heard me and called my family, they showed up with a lawyer who agreed it was highly abusive of their power (these guys wore clothes that said SWAT). At that point, if the supermarket will accuse me of theft despite paying, DUDE! Everyone has the moral authority to steal from Líder. Líder toes the line of theft literally down to the micrometer (ie shaving microns of plastic) and prostitutes lawyers to say they never steal. They steal, but defend themselves legalistically, ie shitloads of lawyers showing up doing bitch moves quoting laws that were written by culpable serial rapists in the 1973 coup. Economic theft. If you're going to be falsely accused unconditionally you're obliged to fulfill the accusation with real harm in some way on the grounds that you will be persecuted anyway. It's acting in self-defense, because false accusations of violence are an exactly equivalent act of violence in the opposite direction. And you can't let magic spells disarm you, there's always going to be some conspiratorial threat--just like 7 Walmart employees conspired against me that day, the cashier CE. NEWEN and the 6 guards, all of whom knew they were carrying out a crime. I personally refuse to carry out this theft myself or benefit from this because it would stain my heroism, but they'll accuse anybody of stealing either way. I'll show up to testify on your behalf if you quote me on this, as a hero according to Roman Law from May 12, 2012, like in US or in Chile which are based on Roman Law I boycotted Líder, funny thing abduction, guess that's a good description of their market power, they can do all kinds of shit (though in America I was basically satisfied with their business against Amazon), the only thing limiting their total market dominance is the percent of people they abduct. And I only boycott them 90%, that's the trick, when they make a crazy effort to break they boycott I yield in an un-constructive way. Dude you can totally buy in like a crappy little store run by immigrants which has no Facial Recognition. That's what you have to do. Otherwise, go without. Live downtown. Else you get HD deepfakes INCLUDING framing you as stealing from them in their camera editing zone or, if you sue them, making porn with your face like the kids in school do with photoshop, cyberbullying. There's media blackout on that. I talked about this abduction here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31306746 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31306746
coding123 4y ago
Well, I'm covered I guess - still wearing a mask.
- fuckcensorship 4y ago
  Wearing a mask will not protect you from facial recognition technology: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-japan-facial-recog/masks-no-obstacle-for-new-nec-facial-recognition-system-idUSKBN29C0JZ https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-japan-...
  - danudey 4y ago
    > The technology firm had already been working on a system to meet the needs of allergy sufferers who wear masks Yes, it's the needs of the allergy sufferers that drove this project from the start. Hi NEC, I wear a mask because of allergies but I'm worried that will prevent private corporations and governments from tracking my every move, can you fix this please?
tfussell 4y ago
My understanding is that these aren't for intimidation but rather to reduce theft by giving people an outside view of themselves. A mirror can also serve this purpose, but may be more difficult to fit in certain spaces. If this is correct, then these cameras aren't recording, just displaying the image directly on the screen. Here's an article about it https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/blogs/et-commentary/mirrors-could-reduce-stealing-or-dishonesty-and-could-even-be-seen-as-a-good-alternative-to-video-surveillance/ https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/blogs/et-commentary/mir...
- jaywalk 4y ago
  All of the ones I've seen specifically say "RECORDING IN PROGRESS" on the screen. Could they be lying? Sure, but I doubt they are.

m463 4y ago

In about 2000 a friend of mine worked in las vegas. At that time, they used facial recognition to identify everyone coming in the door to detect card counters and other troublemakers. They shared this information widely among all the casinos. It is > 20 years later now... I wonder how accommodating they are when a whale walks in?