6 ms·

Well executed. I was aware of most of the data protection and privacy concerns presented, but I wasn't aware facial recognition system are being used as widely

by kypro 4y ago

Well executed. I was aware of most of the data protection and privacy concerns presented, but I wasn't aware facial recognition system are being used as widely as suggested here. If these systems ever become widely adopted I might seriously consider obscuring my face in public. Here in the UK I've noticed over the last year or so many supermarket self checkouts have been fitted with cameras and screens. I'm not naive enough to believe I wasn't being recorded previously, but I can't help but find this trend of sticking a camera directly in my face whenever I'm trying to make a purchase extremely insulting and violating to my sense of privacy. Now after watching this I have almost no doubt that facial recognition software is installed on these systems. I've spoken to other people about the rudeness of this but most people seem to think it's fine. Perhaps I'm just weird and more bothered about this stuff than most people. If sticking a camera in someone's face when they're trying to purchase something in a pharmacy isn't going too far though I do wonder if the average person would really care about anything presented here.

throwaway1777 4y ago
Shops and many other places have had video cameras for decades to deter theft and crime so people are used to it.
- nsv 4y ago
  The key difference here is that most CCTV up to this point has not been high resolution enough to run facial detection on.
  - april_22 4y ago
    Yes but it wouldnt cost that much to replace those with newer, higher resolution ones.
- kypro 4y ago
  They're completely different. This is solely for intimidation purposes. Cameras previously would show a wide angle view of the store so you can see when someone put something under their jacket, etc. I can understand and accept this. In comparison these new cameras have a very swallow angle of view, they're zoomed in on your face and they're in portrait. They would be completely useless if you wanted to see if someone was, say, putting something under their jacket at checkout. These are there to purposefully record your face and let you know that they're doing that full colour and HD whether you like it or not. It's vile and extremely rude. I've never signed an agreement accepting such an obtrusive and unreasonable violation of my privacy when I enter a supermarket - at least online I'd have to accept T&Cs before placing my order.
  - emsixteen 4y ago
    100% agreed on this, and have no idea how to tackle it.
    - lowercased 4y ago
      Stop shopping at those places? But... if you have stuff from them delivered, should you turn the tables and have your own face recog stuff turned on them?
      - danudey 4y ago
        You're not turning the tables on them, you're turning the tables on the random gig economy worker who got assigned your delivery. It's not like the CEO of the pharmacy chain is delivering your case of red bull or something.
    - ldite 4y ago
      Put a bag over the camera before beginning your transaction!
      - jonhohle 4y ago
        I was somewhat hoping full face mask/helmet wearing would become in vogue in the past two years with all of the masking requirements like we see in so many sci-fi shows and movies. Algorithms would move to gate analysis or other things, but at least facial recognition could be crossed off. If a air born pandemic can’t move society in that direction, I fear that we’ll never get to our perpetually masked future.
      - emsixteen 4y ago
        You planning on sneaking up on the camera from behind?
    - adolph 4y ago
      Ideas to tackle it: Wear your covid mask, sunglasses and sunhat everywhere. Also put heel inserts in your shoes to change your height/walking gait. Or just go full privacy burka with a headshape altering chef's hat or mitznefet.
- m463 4y ago
  In about 2000 a friend of mine worked in las vegas. At that time, they used facial recognition to identify everyone coming in the door to detect card counters and other troublemakers. They shared this information widely among all the casinos. It is > 20 years later now... I wonder how accommodating they are when a whale walks in?
bko 4y ago
I played around with Amazon's Rekognition software. I took one of those youtube videos where someone takes a picture of themselves every day for 10 years. It was fairly ideal conditions (consistent lighting, same pose for the most part) but the kid also went from 12 years old to 22, so his face definitely changed a lot. I used the first image as the image to compare the rest to (12 years old at the time), and I was surprised that it got pretty much almost all of them with a high degree of confidence (80%+). And the 80% ones were terrible lighting, sunglasses or an image of his girlfriend he slipped in there. Even the sunglasses, beard, face paint, bad lighting or puberty didn't throw off the model. The open source dlib model was considerably worse, but AWS Rekognition was incredible https://mleverything.substack.com/p/how-facial-recognition-works-part-3-how-a-face-changes-over-10-years-ba0e418a0ae4 https://mleverything.substack.com/p/how-facial-recognition-w...
- april_22 4y ago
  There was this one incident in China where the facial recognition system mistaked the face of a chinese celebrity on a bus for a jaywalker... so the system isn't perfect for special conditions/environments yet. However I do believe that results today are already outstanding and will only get better. https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/22/18107885/china-facial-recognition-mistaken-jaywalker https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/22/18107885/china-facial-re... https://you.com/search?q=facial+recognition+in+china https://you.com/search?q=facial+recognition+in+china
  - cbau 4y ago
    Wow, the more insane story to me here is that they flash your face, name, and ID number on a public screen if you're caught jaywalking. How dystopian.
    - mrandish 4y ago
      If public shaming like that was attempted in the US, I imagine in some circles it would become a goal to repost on social media a photo of yourself on the system jaywalking. Probably holding a sign with some meme.
Quarrelsome 4y ago
I thought it was so people behind the till could do age checks and bypass machine blocks without having to move.
stevofolife 4y ago
It's also a good reason to wear mask.

by kypro 4y ago

throwaway1777 4y ago

Shops and many other places have had video cameras for decades to deter theft and crime so people are used to it.

nsv 4y ago
The key difference here is that most CCTV up to this point has not been high resolution enough to run facial detection on.
- april_22 4y ago
  Yes but it wouldnt cost that much to replace those with newer, higher resolution ones.
kypro 4y ago
They're completely different. This is solely for intimidation purposes. Cameras previously would show a wide angle view of the store so you can see when someone put something under their jacket, etc. I can understand and accept this. In comparison these new cameras have a very swallow angle of view, they're zoomed in on your face and they're in portrait. They would be completely useless if you wanted to see if someone was, say, putting something under their jacket at checkout. These are there to purposefully record your face and let you know that they're doing that full colour and HD whether you like it or not. It's vile and extremely rude. I've never signed an agreement accepting such an obtrusive and unreasonable violation of my privacy when I enter a supermarket - at least online I'd have to accept T&Cs before placing my order.
- emsixteen 4y ago
  100% agreed on this, and have no idea how to tackle it.
  - lowercased 4y ago
    Stop shopping at those places? But... if you have stuff from them delivered, should you turn the tables and have your own face recog stuff turned on them?
    - danudey 4y ago
      You're not turning the tables on them, you're turning the tables on the random gig economy worker who got assigned your delivery. It's not like the CEO of the pharmacy chain is delivering your case of red bull or something.
  - ldite 4y ago
    Put a bag over the camera before beginning your transaction!
    - jonhohle 4y ago
      I was somewhat hoping full face mask/helmet wearing would become in vogue in the past two years with all of the masking requirements like we see in so many sci-fi shows and movies. Algorithms would move to gate analysis or other things, but at least facial recognition could be crossed off. If a air born pandemic can’t move society in that direction, I fear that we’ll never get to our perpetually masked future.
    - emsixteen 4y ago
      You planning on sneaking up on the camera from behind?
  - adolph 4y ago
    Ideas to tackle it: Wear your covid mask, sunglasses and sunhat everywhere. Also put heel inserts in your shoes to change your height/walking gait. Or just go full privacy burka with a headshape altering chef's hat or mitznefet.
m463 4y ago
In about 2000 a friend of mine worked in las vegas. At that time, they used facial recognition to identify everyone coming in the door to detect card counters and other troublemakers. They shared this information widely among all the casinos. It is > 20 years later now... I wonder how accommodating they are when a whale walks in?

bko 4y ago

I played around with Amazon's Rekognition software. I took one of those youtube videos where someone takes a picture of themselves every day for 10 years. It was fairly ideal conditions (consistent lighting, same pose for the most part) but the kid also went from 12 years old to 22, so his face definitely changed a lot. I used the first image as the image to compare the rest to (12 years old at the time), and I was surprised that it got pretty much almost all of them with a high degree of confidence (80%+). And the 80% ones were terrible lighting, sunglasses or an image of his girlfriend he slipped in there. Even the sunglasses, beard, face paint, bad lighting or puberty didn't throw off the model. The open source dlib model was considerably worse, but AWS Rekognition was incredible https://mleverything.substack.com/p/how-facial-recognition-works-part-3-how-a-face-changes-over-10-years-ba0e418a0ae4 https://mleverything.substack.com/p/how-facial-recognition-w...

april_22 4y ago
There was this one incident in China where the facial recognition system mistaked the face of a chinese celebrity on a bus for a jaywalker... so the system isn't perfect for special conditions/environments yet. However I do believe that results today are already outstanding and will only get better. https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/22/18107885/china-facial-recognition-mistaken-jaywalker https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/22/18107885/china-facial-re... https://you.com/search?q=facial+recognition+in+china https://you.com/search?q=facial+recognition+in+china
- cbau 4y ago
  Wow, the more insane story to me here is that they flash your face, name, and ID number on a public screen if you're caught jaywalking. How dystopian.
  - mrandish 4y ago
    If public shaming like that was attempted in the US, I imagine in some circles it would become a goal to repost on social media a photo of yourself on the system jaywalking. Probably holding a sign with some meme.

Quarrelsome 4y ago

I thought it was so people behind the till could do age checks and bypass machine blocks without having to move.

stevofolife 4y ago

It's also a good reason to wear mask.