4 ms·

But arguably if you remain childfree you'll be able to throw money at the problem - you can afford a luxury nursing home.

by sforza 4y ago

stocknoob 4y ago
And it’s cruel to bring someone into existence to be your caretaker. And then they’re forced to have kids to take care of them? It’s a Ponzi scheme.
- sforza 4y ago
  Not sure why this is being downvoted. People who have children just so they have someone to take care of them need to be downvoted into oblivion.
Balgair 4y ago
I've had a few extended family members who tried the 'money will take care of me' route. So, small sample size warning. It doesn't work out well. The people in the nursing homes/hospice still are only their to be paid. They don't care about you deep down. So, things like bedsores are allowed to fester, cancer diagnoses come a bit later than you'd like, loneliness sets it (especially during covid), your diapers aren't changed all that much, you get sent out to the ER even for little things, etc. Your care is, essentially, being chosen by a lawyer and then enacted by a low paid employee who would like a real career where they don't treat old crazy people like babies. Sure, you can choose a super luxe home to the tune of ~$50k/mo. I had an extended relative that was on a great series of pensions (guaranteed income) and was in a home that was costing ~$25k/mo. They were there for ~15 years. It still didn't go all that well and the family was called in at least twice a week to help out with things. Other people there without family nearby, let alone any at all, didn't fair nearly was well, typically 2-3 years. Then covid hit, and all hell broke loose for everyone. If you don't have someone watching out for you that really does care for you, you're going to be treated poorly. Especially if you develop any mental problems in your old age. You don't have to have kiddos, but you do have to have someone out there nearby who really will get out of bed at 3am for the third time this month to come help you when you're blind and demented to physically lift you up and wipe your incontinence off.
- agent008t 4y ago
  When blind and demented, the only help one would probably need is to cease to be.
  - Balgair 4y ago
    You'd think that when healthy and of able mind. But as life slides towards that state, it's amazing how people still find very good reasons to stick around. It's strange to us, but even blind and demented, life is still worth living. In my little bit on experience, the only thing that makes life not worth living seems to be pain. When we're in a lot of pain, then people tend to opt out of living. But until there is pain, there's still something in life that makes it all worthwhile.
- silicon2401 4y ago
  > If you don't have someone watching out for you that really does care for you, you're going to be treated poorly. Especially if you develop any mental problems in your old age. Kids won't always do this. In fact it's possible for kids to be the ones treating you poorly in your old age, and it happens more often than people like to admit. > You don't have to have kiddos, but you do have to have someone out there nearby who really will get out of bed at 3am for the third time this month to come help you when you're blind and demented to physically lift you up and wipe your incontinence off. Again, you're making a huge assumption that if you have kids, they will be caring. Maybe you've never seen people whose kids are nasty or simply uncaring, but anybody who has kids is making that gamble.
  - Balgair 4y ago
    Oh sure, of course. But if you're the one raising them, you've got a hell of a way to bias that coin flip. Or, to extend the metaphor, mint new coins.
    - silicon2401 4y ago
      That's a mighty risk to take when there are countless other things to do with one's life. Lots of people would be happier taking a coin flip where the stakes aren't so high.
uberman 4y ago
How long do you imagine $300k (the average cost to raise a kid) will last you in a luxury nursing home?
- sforza 4y ago
  We all know that $300k is nowhere near how much it takes to raise a child.
  - hotpotamus 4y ago
    What's funny is that I can't tell whether you think $300K is high or low, and to me the number sounds about right. That said, I'll throw in my two cents here because it's as good a place as any. Though I have internal conflict on the whole issue of having children, I have to say that treating them as a means of investment for old age care has two issues - one, it seems kind of like a dick move to them, and two, it's far from guaranteed; they could have their own ideas.
    - agent008t 4y ago
      300K would barely cover the cost of an extra bedroom per child. Let alone the fact that some places around the world require one to send their child to private school, fund university costs etc.
      - hotpotamus 4y ago
        And yet somehow humans got on before all that. I know a few people who have kids and I can guarantee they aren't spending near that much because they don't have that much.
      - uberman 4y ago
        The average home price in the USA is about 300k so clearly this is wildly overstated. Yes some parents would rather send thier kids to a private school and to be frank, we do, but that is a choice not a requirement. I don't know any place where the only option for schooling is an expensive private school. Saying that kids are not financial worth it, then constantly moving the goal posts to create a strawman to justify it is a waste of people's time. If someone wants to argue that kids with special needs who require private schooling and a fully detached house in Palo Alto are expensive and a stretch to financially justify that is one thing but let's get a clear play field so that the goal posts are not constantly in flux.

But arguably if you remain childfree you'll be able to throw money at the problem - you can afford a luxury nursing home.

by sforza 4y ago

But arguably if you remain childfree you'll be able to throw money at the problem - you can afford a luxury nursing home.

stocknoob 4y ago

And it’s cruel to bring someone into existence to be your caretaker. And then they’re forced to have kids to take care of them? It’s a Ponzi scheme.

sforza 4y ago
Not sure why this is being downvoted. People who have children just so they have someone to take care of them need to be downvoted into oblivion.

Balgair 4y ago

I've had a few extended family members who tried the 'money will take care of me' route. So, small sample size warning. It doesn't work out well. The people in the nursing homes/hospice still are only their to be paid. They don't care about you deep down. So, things like bedsores are allowed to fester, cancer diagnoses come a bit later than you'd like, loneliness sets it (especially during covid), your diapers aren't changed all that much, you get sent out to the ER even for little things, etc. Your care is, essentially, being chosen by a lawyer and then enacted by a low paid employee who would like a real career where they don't treat old crazy people like babies. Sure, you can choose a super luxe home to the tune of ~$50k/mo. I had an extended relative that was on a great series of pensions (guaranteed income) and was in a home that was costing ~$25k/mo. They were there for ~15 years. It still didn't go all that well and the family was called in at least twice a week to help out with things. Other people there without family nearby, let alone any at all, didn't fair nearly was well, typically 2-3 years. Then covid hit, and all hell broke loose for everyone. If you don't have someone watching out for you that really does care for you, you're going to be treated poorly. Especially if you develop any mental problems in your old age. You don't have to have kiddos, but you do have to have someone out there nearby who really will get out of bed at 3am for the third time this month to come help you when you're blind and demented to physically lift you up and wipe your incontinence off.

agent008t 4y ago
When blind and demented, the only help one would probably need is to cease to be.
- Balgair 4y ago
  You'd think that when healthy and of able mind. But as life slides towards that state, it's amazing how people still find very good reasons to stick around. It's strange to us, but even blind and demented, life is still worth living. In my little bit on experience, the only thing that makes life not worth living seems to be pain. When we're in a lot of pain, then people tend to opt out of living. But until there is pain, there's still something in life that makes it all worthwhile.
silicon2401 4y ago
> If you don't have someone watching out for you that really does care for you, you're going to be treated poorly. Especially if you develop any mental problems in your old age. Kids won't always do this. In fact it's possible for kids to be the ones treating you poorly in your old age, and it happens more often than people like to admit. > You don't have to have kiddos, but you do have to have someone out there nearby who really will get out of bed at 3am for the third time this month to come help you when you're blind and demented to physically lift you up and wipe your incontinence off. Again, you're making a huge assumption that if you have kids, they will be caring. Maybe you've never seen people whose kids are nasty or simply uncaring, but anybody who has kids is making that gamble.
- Balgair 4y ago
  Oh sure, of course. But if you're the one raising them, you've got a hell of a way to bias that coin flip. Or, to extend the metaphor, mint new coins.
  - silicon2401 4y ago
    That's a mighty risk to take when there are countless other things to do with one's life. Lots of people would be happier taking a coin flip where the stakes aren't so high.

uberman 4y ago

How long do you imagine $300k (the average cost to raise a kid) will last you in a luxury nursing home?

sforza 4y ago
We all know that $300k is nowhere near how much it takes to raise a child.
- hotpotamus 4y ago
  What's funny is that I can't tell whether you think $300K is high or low, and to me the number sounds about right. That said, I'll throw in my two cents here because it's as good a place as any. Though I have internal conflict on the whole issue of having children, I have to say that treating them as a means of investment for old age care has two issues - one, it seems kind of like a dick move to them, and two, it's far from guaranteed; they could have their own ideas.
  - agent008t 4y ago
    300K would barely cover the cost of an extra bedroom per child. Let alone the fact that some places around the world require one to send their child to private school, fund university costs etc.
    - hotpotamus 4y ago
      And yet somehow humans got on before all that. I know a few people who have kids and I can guarantee they aren't spending near that much because they don't have that much.
    - uberman 4y ago
      The average home price in the USA is about 300k so clearly this is wildly overstated. Yes some parents would rather send thier kids to a private school and to be frank, we do, but that is a choice not a requirement. I don't know any place where the only option for schooling is an expensive private school. Saying that kids are not financial worth it, then constantly moving the goal posts to create a strawman to justify it is a waste of people's time. If someone wants to argue that kids with special needs who require private schooling and a fully detached house in Palo Alto are expensive and a stretch to financially justify that is one thing but let's get a clear play field so that the goal posts are not constantly in flux.