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I'm personally happy to stay inside Apple's ecosystem, but believe that everyone should have the option to choose. This looks like good news, a step in the dire

I'm personally happy to stay inside Apple's ecosystem, but believe that everyone should have the option to choose. This looks like good news, a step in the direction of being more in control of the devices we buy.

ericmay 4y ago
You do have the option to choose. You can buy any number of Android phones, or you can jailbreak an iPhone with custom software. Ultimately this will be bad for regular people, and good for crypto scammers, ad agencies, and companies that rely on hovering up personal data.
- WastingMyTime89 4y ago
  Apple advances this argument all the time. Meanwhile most European use Android which allows side-loading and the predicted apocalypse didn’t actually happen. I know it’s annoying: this pesky reality showing to everyone that your argument is actually specious.
  - drcongo 4y ago
    Didn't it? Every Android user I know is a data leak firehose.
    - root_axis 4y ago
      Based on what? How would you even know?
    - aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
      Same here for iOS users in the US. Add some details and maybe we can compare better.
      - cmdli 4y ago
        Here's a detail: iOS stopped apps from tracking you, and it worked so well that Facebook (an ad company) fought it tooth and nail and lost quite a bit of money because of it. Do you have any such details of similar things happening in Android?
        Apocryphon 4y ago
        It's coming: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/16/google-plans-android-privacy-change-similar-to-apples.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/16/google-plans-android-privacy...
- tchocky 4y ago
  Don't know if it will be bad. Apple still can make this securely. It doesn't mean that the system needs to be completely open, just that apps need to be able to access hardware features. NFC for example can be asked upon like GPS on the OS level. Doesn't mean that the apps need to access NFC on the direct hardware level. And I don't want to have Android, but I would like for Apple to open up things like the forced browser engine stuff. With this Apple is blocking so much innovation for the web because they are not implementing so many things.
  - Jcowell 4y ago
    One thing I hope for is that API access comes with the following agreement: 1) Use of APIs means an App must be listed on the App Store or be used the regular way. You want location data? Sure but in exchange, I want to see an App Store listing along with the Data Privacy Report. You want access to NFC but you’re a bank? Sure but your cards must also be available to be added directly without an app. You’re free to create another version of your app and list that on another App Store , but I want a version that adheres to the App Store rules.
- anonymousab 4y ago
  > or you can jailbreak an iPhone That's often not an option due to Apple's choices, but if Apple offered an official way to break out of the garden with your own iPhone then I think things wouldn't have gotten this far.
- izacus 4y ago
  And now you'll be able to choose WHILE still keep using iOS which is much better for you as a consumer. This being bad for "regular people" is typical monopolistic corporate scaremongering. Apple has proven that they're more than capable of providing secure devices that provide choice with their MacBook series.
  - ericmay 4y ago
    Kind of. So the primary issue is that Apple collectively bargains on behalf of customers against developers. So if you take something like privacy rights, Apple can say "hey, we've got all of these users and if you want to participate in the ecosystem you have to not track their data" - as an example. Now what happens is that companies like Facebook and others who really want to get your data without that pesky Apple interfering is they launch legal attacks and marketing campaigns to convince people that Apple is a big bad monopoly and their "locking down" is bad for customers, etc. (so ya know, typical monopolistic corporate scaremongering) and then Apple goes and gets regulated. With Apple finally being forced to allow a third-party app store on iOS, it makes financial sense for, well, Facebook and others to start such stores that don't respect privacy rights - Apple can't make them and then Facebook creates a neutered version of its products on Apple's App Store and creates the best version on their own (or one they support) app store. It didn't make a lot of sense to do this with just Android because you're maintaining a lot of software and it's not worth the money + you don't want to show your hand. Now with this new legislation these companies will basically eliminate a lot of customer protections that we have. Many day-to-day people will just say "oh I need the X store for Facebook and TikTok and YouTube" and they'll sign away privacy rights to get those apps because they don't have an immediate feedback loop. They just get more and more invasive applications and then that's that. With Apple maintaining control of the App Store ecosystem, customers could have their cake and eat it too. They got privacy rights because Apple could collectively bargain for them, but they also got their apps because so much money stands to be made anyway that companies would comply with these rules. It absolutely blows my mind that people are rallying the pitchforks around Apple for "monopolistic corporate scaremongering" all the while missing that its all of these other "monopolistic corporate scaremongering" corporations like Facebook, Google, TikTok, Uber, and others who they're out in the streets for. I mean, you do know that Facebook is a giant corporation, right? (Not picking on Facebook here). For me personally as a user, it means companies leave the App Store ecosystem, and devalues the iPhone and other devices.
ratww 4y ago
> I'm personally happy to stay inside Apple's ecosystem I used to believe that I'd stay inside the Apple ecosystem if this ever happened, but the ecosystem has become a total dumpster fire in the last few years IMO. The App Store itself is riddled with 99% crap apps, there's a lot of advertisement that really puts me off, the macOS Store results are mostly copycat apps or very suspicious stuff (although most of the time the real Apps aren't even there), their own apps (Music, TV, AppStore itself) are buggy as heck for me, there's an incredible amount of notification spam from otherwise useful apps (bank app, Uber, delivery app, etc). They've lost control. Opening up is more necessary than ever, for multiple reasons.
- Hamuko 4y ago
  I detest the App Store ads. They can't even be making that much money, but they completely undermine the reliability of the App Store.
  - ksec 4y ago
    >They can't even be making that much money Apple's Search Ad made $2B a year in 2020. And estimated to be $2.5 to $3B in 2021.

ericmay 4y ago

You do have the option to choose. You can buy any number of Android phones, or you can jailbreak an iPhone with custom software. Ultimately this will be bad for regular people, and good for crypto scammers, ad agencies, and companies that rely on hovering up personal data.

WastingMyTime89 4y ago
Apple advances this argument all the time. Meanwhile most European use Android which allows side-loading and the predicted apocalypse didn’t actually happen. I know it’s annoying: this pesky reality showing to everyone that your argument is actually specious.
- drcongo 4y ago
  Didn't it? Every Android user I know is a data leak firehose.
  - root_axis 4y ago
    Based on what? How would you even know?
  - aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
    Same here for iOS users in the US. Add some details and maybe we can compare better.
    - cmdli 4y ago
      Here's a detail: iOS stopped apps from tracking you, and it worked so well that Facebook (an ad company) fought it tooth and nail and lost quite a bit of money because of it. Do you have any such details of similar things happening in Android?
      - Apocryphon 4y ago
        It's coming: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/16/google-plans-android-privacy-change-similar-to-apples.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/16/google-plans-android-privacy...
tchocky 4y ago
Don't know if it will be bad. Apple still can make this securely. It doesn't mean that the system needs to be completely open, just that apps need to be able to access hardware features. NFC for example can be asked upon like GPS on the OS level. Doesn't mean that the apps need to access NFC on the direct hardware level. And I don't want to have Android, but I would like for Apple to open up things like the forced browser engine stuff. With this Apple is blocking so much innovation for the web because they are not implementing so many things.
- Jcowell 4y ago
  One thing I hope for is that API access comes with the following agreement: 1) Use of APIs means an App must be listed on the App Store or be used the regular way. You want location data? Sure but in exchange, I want to see an App Store listing along with the Data Privacy Report. You want access to NFC but you’re a bank? Sure but your cards must also be available to be added directly without an app. You’re free to create another version of your app and list that on another App Store , but I want a version that adheres to the App Store rules.
anonymousab 4y ago
> or you can jailbreak an iPhone That's often not an option due to Apple's choices, but if Apple offered an official way to break out of the garden with your own iPhone then I think things wouldn't have gotten this far.
izacus 4y ago
And now you'll be able to choose WHILE still keep using iOS which is much better for you as a consumer. This being bad for "regular people" is typical monopolistic corporate scaremongering. Apple has proven that they're more than capable of providing secure devices that provide choice with their MacBook series.
- ericmay 4y ago
  Kind of. So the primary issue is that Apple collectively bargains on behalf of customers against developers. So if you take something like privacy rights, Apple can say "hey, we've got all of these users and if you want to participate in the ecosystem you have to not track their data" - as an example. Now what happens is that companies like Facebook and others who really want to get your data without that pesky Apple interfering is they launch legal attacks and marketing campaigns to convince people that Apple is a big bad monopoly and their "locking down" is bad for customers, etc. (so ya know, typical monopolistic corporate scaremongering) and then Apple goes and gets regulated. With Apple finally being forced to allow a third-party app store on iOS, it makes financial sense for, well, Facebook and others to start such stores that don't respect privacy rights - Apple can't make them and then Facebook creates a neutered version of its products on Apple's App Store and creates the best version on their own (or one they support) app store. It didn't make a lot of sense to do this with just Android because you're maintaining a lot of software and it's not worth the money + you don't want to show your hand. Now with this new legislation these companies will basically eliminate a lot of customer protections that we have. Many day-to-day people will just say "oh I need the X store for Facebook and TikTok and YouTube" and they'll sign away privacy rights to get those apps because they don't have an immediate feedback loop. They just get more and more invasive applications and then that's that. With Apple maintaining control of the App Store ecosystem, customers could have their cake and eat it too. They got privacy rights because Apple could collectively bargain for them, but they also got their apps because so much money stands to be made anyway that companies would comply with these rules. It absolutely blows my mind that people are rallying the pitchforks around Apple for "monopolistic corporate scaremongering" all the while missing that its all of these other "monopolistic corporate scaremongering" corporations like Facebook, Google, TikTok, Uber, and others who they're out in the streets for. I mean, you do know that Facebook is a giant corporation, right? (Not picking on Facebook here). For me personally as a user, it means companies leave the App Store ecosystem, and devalues the iPhone and other devices.

ratww 4y ago

> I'm personally happy to stay inside Apple's ecosystem I used to believe that I'd stay inside the Apple ecosystem if this ever happened, but the ecosystem has become a total dumpster fire in the last few years IMO. The App Store itself is riddled with 99% crap apps, there's a lot of advertisement that really puts me off, the macOS Store results are mostly copycat apps or very suspicious stuff (although most of the time the real Apps aren't even there), their own apps (Music, TV, AppStore itself) are buggy as heck for me, there's an incredible amount of notification spam from otherwise useful apps (bank app, Uber, delivery app, etc). They've lost control. Opening up is more necessary than ever, for multiple reasons.

Hamuko 4y ago
I detest the App Store ads. They can't even be making that much money, but they completely undermine the reliability of the App Store.
- ksec 4y ago
  >They can't even be making that much money Apple's Search Ad made $2B a year in 2020. And estimated to be $2.5 to $3B in 2021.