5 ms·

They can be overhyped and also an important part of the future of transportation.

tamaharbor 4y ago
Unless it is extremely hot, or extremely cold, or you have to go a long way, or if you don’t want to buy an expensive new battery set every five years, or if you don’t have 220v at your house, or if you worry about finding a charging station while you run out of power in traffic, or if you don’t want to use any coal or natural gas to power your car.
- dirtball_ 4y ago
  You're right! The current technology is less than perfect, so let's stop trying to improve things and burn fossil fuels forever! What an excellent take.
  - Smoosh 4y ago
    Fossil fuels? they can be toxic, difficult to transport, polluting, and worst of all, highly combustible, even explosive! I can't imagine us adopting a technology with such flaws, it could never be made to work. /s
- throwaway742 4y ago
  I thought every house in the US at least has 220v.
  - Smoosh 4y ago
    only those without strawmen living in them.
  - booi 4y ago
    Yes every house in the US does has 220V or 240V. Either way a good majority of people can probably even get away with 120V. Not ideal but good enough for most commutes. But honestly there’s a lot of people that exclusively charge at superchargers.
  - bittercynic 4y ago
    I know one person living in 1/2 a duplex, and they don't. They have one phase, and the other 1/2 of the duplex has the other. GP's point stands, though. EVs aren't the right solution for every single situation, and may never be, but that doesn't mean they can't be an important part of the mix.
  - lostapathy 4y ago
    Technically it's 240v in the US. I'm sure there's an exceedingly small population of people who don't have 240v, but those people also don't have electric ovens, dryers, or stoves/cooktops.
  - twblalock 4y ago
    My last house didn't. Every major appliance used natural gas. Most prewar homes don't have 220v either unless it was added later (commonly as part of an air conditioner installation, but even then, often the AC unit has the only 220v circuit). It's not hard to add 220v to an existing home, but it is less common than you think. Before electric cars existed, the main reason a homeowner would add 220 was for air conditioning, large stationary power tools, or if they were one of those weirdos that preferred electric stoves to gas (before induction existed).
    - tempestn 4y ago
      Or an electric dryer?
- phlhr 4y ago
  1/ thermal management system works for temps -50c to +50c 2/ see above 3/ fast DC charging will give you 300+ KM of range for 30min of charging. 99% of the time you charge at home so over a year, you end up saving time with an EV. 4/ Batteries last 8-15 years. 5/ every house as at least 220v
  - generalizations 4y ago
    3) 30 minutes for 186 miles isn't great. Normal for an ICE is 5 minutes for 300-400 miles (482-643 km). 4) I have two cars. One is 15 years old, the other is 25. They are cheap, they are reliable, and I get 30 mpg. An 8-15 year lifespan is again, kinda sad in comparison to ICE. I'm looking forward to electric cars being generally feasible. But the battery tech needs a lot of help. Charging times and lifespan needs to match ICE cars.
    - phlhr 4y ago
      This is much less of a problem than you think it is. 30min to add ~200mi of range is enough for 99% of people. Most people who take road trips need to stop every 3hrs for food/bathroom etc. By the time that's done, your car is charge. Remember that typically you charge while your car is parked, so the net time loss is usually less than that of an ICE. 8-15 years is to get to 80% battery degradation. Total loss of vehicle probably around the 500k to 1mil mile mark. If you have a 15 and 25 year old ICE, you are far better off driving them into the ground than buying an EV. Don't try to dissuade people about the concept of EVs because of your personal circumstance. If you are in the market for a new car circa $40k USD, buying anything other than EV is financial insanity.
    - wpearse 4y ago
      Hey, I felt exactly the same way about ICE vs EV. I have a V8 that I tinker with on weekends. I have 4 other ICE vehicles. The kicker for me was borrowing a friend’s EV for the day. The driving experience was so completely different to my cars it was mind-boggling. The only other time I’ve felt the same way was picking up the first iPhone. We bought an EV a couple years after that (6 months ago, now) the first couple of weeks we struggled with range anxiety and suffered from inconvenience. Now we’re completely in love and wouldn’t ever buy another ICE. (Except maybe another old Saab…)
- csa 4y ago
  > Unless it is extremely hot, or extremely cold, or you have to go a long way, or if you don’t want to buy an expensive new battery set every five years, or if you don’t have 220v at your house, or if you worry about finding a charging station while you run out of power in traffic, or if you don’t want to use any coal or natural gas to power your car. I’m guessing you don’t own an electric car, but you get your strong opinions from anti-ev sources. As a Tesla owner, let me put most of these non-issues to bed: 1. Extremely hot - drove to Vegas last summer. 110-120 degree heat for most of the trip there. No issues. 2. Extremely cold — yes, this can be an issue if you need to drive long distances in the cold. Day-to-day local driving is completely fine, and distance is also not a problem if you are willing to stop at charging stations at shorter intervals. I don’t live in a cold area, so I don’t know what those intervals are. 3. New battery set every X years (you said 5). This might be a minimum, but practically speaking it seems to be 10+ for teslas. The original tesla model s cars are about 10 years old, and the ones that need battery replacements due to wear and tear seem to be few —- and the tech has improved a lot since then, and it’s getting even better. 4. 220v at your house — regular plug is fine for local driving. This is what I use. A buddy of mine lives in an apartment with no plug. He just goes to a charger every 2-3 weeks while he gets a haircut. This is very much a non-issue. 5. Charging station in traffic — well, sure, maybe. That’s no different than running out of gas in traffic. It can happen, but it’s usually the result of a series of bad decisions by the driver. I will add that EVs actually get better mileage in the city due to regeneration. 6. Don’t want to use coal and natural gas to power your car — This is a slightly odd argument. NG is relatively clean. Coal is definitely an issue, but the use of coal varies from state to state. In CA (where I live), it’s 0.15% coal, iirc. If your state creates dirty electricity, take that up with your elected officials and your utilities. If you have the means, circumvent this by getting solar (if possible). I imagine that someone will comment that I am taking a privileged stance as a Tesla owner, and I slightly agree… right now. That said, lower cost EVs will happen in the near future, and lots of folks buy cars that have a purchase cost comparable to a standard range model 3 while having a much higher total cost of ownership than the model 3. Regarding the article, EVs will definitely require new and different infrastructure both in the US and Japan, but any potential problems are all very solvable.
  - smileysteve 4y ago
- tempestn 4y ago
  The every 5 years thing is greatly exaggerated. There are plenty of Teslas from 2012-2017 still going strong on their original batteries.

Unless it is extremely hot, or extremely cold, or you have to go a long way, or if you don’t want to buy an expensive new battery set every five years, or if you don’t have 220v at your house, or if you worry about finding a charging station while you run out of power in traffic, or if you don’t want to use any coal or natural gas to power your car.

dirtball_ 4y ago
You're right! The current technology is less than perfect, so let's stop trying to improve things and burn fossil fuels forever! What an excellent take.
- Smoosh 4y ago
  Fossil fuels? they can be toxic, difficult to transport, polluting, and worst of all, highly combustible, even explosive! I can't imagine us adopting a technology with such flaws, it could never be made to work. /s
throwaway742 4y ago
I thought every house in the US at least has 220v.
- Smoosh 4y ago
  only those without strawmen living in them.
- booi 4y ago
  Yes every house in the US does has 220V or 240V. Either way a good majority of people can probably even get away with 120V. Not ideal but good enough for most commutes. But honestly there’s a lot of people that exclusively charge at superchargers.
- bittercynic 4y ago
  I know one person living in 1/2 a duplex, and they don't. They have one phase, and the other 1/2 of the duplex has the other. GP's point stands, though. EVs aren't the right solution for every single situation, and may never be, but that doesn't mean they can't be an important part of the mix.
- lostapathy 4y ago
  Technically it's 240v in the US. I'm sure there's an exceedingly small population of people who don't have 240v, but those people also don't have electric ovens, dryers, or stoves/cooktops.
- twblalock 4y ago
  My last house didn't. Every major appliance used natural gas. Most prewar homes don't have 220v either unless it was added later (commonly as part of an air conditioner installation, but even then, often the AC unit has the only 220v circuit). It's not hard to add 220v to an existing home, but it is less common than you think. Before electric cars existed, the main reason a homeowner would add 220 was for air conditioning, large stationary power tools, or if they were one of those weirdos that preferred electric stoves to gas (before induction existed).
  - tempestn 4y ago
    Or an electric dryer?
phlhr 4y ago
1/ thermal management system works for temps -50c to +50c 2/ see above 3/ fast DC charging will give you 300+ KM of range for 30min of charging. 99% of the time you charge at home so over a year, you end up saving time with an EV. 4/ Batteries last 8-15 years. 5/ every house as at least 220v
- generalizations 4y ago
  3) 30 minutes for 186 miles isn't great. Normal for an ICE is 5 minutes for 300-400 miles (482-643 km). 4) I have two cars. One is 15 years old, the other is 25. They are cheap, they are reliable, and I get 30 mpg. An 8-15 year lifespan is again, kinda sad in comparison to ICE. I'm looking forward to electric cars being generally feasible. But the battery tech needs a lot of help. Charging times and lifespan needs to match ICE cars.
  - phlhr 4y ago
    This is much less of a problem than you think it is. 30min to add ~200mi of range is enough for 99% of people. Most people who take road trips need to stop every 3hrs for food/bathroom etc. By the time that's done, your car is charge. Remember that typically you charge while your car is parked, so the net time loss is usually less than that of an ICE. 8-15 years is to get to 80% battery degradation. Total loss of vehicle probably around the 500k to 1mil mile mark. If you have a 15 and 25 year old ICE, you are far better off driving them into the ground than buying an EV. Don't try to dissuade people about the concept of EVs because of your personal circumstance. If you are in the market for a new car circa $40k USD, buying anything other than EV is financial insanity.
  - wpearse 4y ago
    Hey, I felt exactly the same way about ICE vs EV. I have a V8 that I tinker with on weekends. I have 4 other ICE vehicles. The kicker for me was borrowing a friend’s EV for the day. The driving experience was so completely different to my cars it was mind-boggling. The only other time I’ve felt the same way was picking up the first iPhone. We bought an EV a couple years after that (6 months ago, now) the first couple of weeks we struggled with range anxiety and suffered from inconvenience. Now we’re completely in love and wouldn’t ever buy another ICE. (Except maybe another old Saab…)
csa 4y ago
> Unless it is extremely hot, or extremely cold, or you have to go a long way, or if you don’t want to buy an expensive new battery set every five years, or if you don’t have 220v at your house, or if you worry about finding a charging station while you run out of power in traffic, or if you don’t want to use any coal or natural gas to power your car. I’m guessing you don’t own an electric car, but you get your strong opinions from anti-ev sources. As a Tesla owner, let me put most of these non-issues to bed: 1. Extremely hot - drove to Vegas last summer. 110-120 degree heat for most of the trip there. No issues. 2. Extremely cold — yes, this can be an issue if you need to drive long distances in the cold. Day-to-day local driving is completely fine, and distance is also not a problem if you are willing to stop at charging stations at shorter intervals. I don’t live in a cold area, so I don’t know what those intervals are. 3. New battery set every X years (you said 5). This might be a minimum, but practically speaking it seems to be 10+ for teslas. The original tesla model s cars are about 10 years old, and the ones that need battery replacements due to wear and tear seem to be few —- and the tech has improved a lot since then, and it’s getting even better. 4. 220v at your house — regular plug is fine for local driving. This is what I use. A buddy of mine lives in an apartment with no plug. He just goes to a charger every 2-3 weeks while he gets a haircut. This is very much a non-issue. 5. Charging station in traffic — well, sure, maybe. That’s no different than running out of gas in traffic. It can happen, but it’s usually the result of a series of bad decisions by the driver. I will add that EVs actually get better mileage in the city due to regeneration. 6. Don’t want to use coal and natural gas to power your car — This is a slightly odd argument. NG is relatively clean. Coal is definitely an issue, but the use of coal varies from state to state. In CA (where I live), it’s 0.15% coal, iirc. If your state creates dirty electricity, take that up with your elected officials and your utilities. If you have the means, circumvent this by getting solar (if possible). I imagine that someone will comment that I am taking a privileged stance as a Tesla owner, and I slightly agree… right now. That said, lower cost EVs will happen in the near future, and lots of folks buy cars that have a purchase cost comparable to a standard range model 3 while having a much higher total cost of ownership than the model 3. Regarding the article, EVs will definitely require new and different infrastructure both in the US and Japan, but any potential problems are all very solvable.
- smileysteve 4y ago
tempestn 4y ago
The every 5 years thing is greatly exaggerated. There are plenty of Teslas from 2012-2017 still going strong on their original batteries.