3 ms·

I'm curious if anyone who has put in enough effort to get familiar with a tiling window manager has ever gone back to a traditional one. IMO tiling window manag

I'm curious if anyone who has put in enough effort to get familiar with a tiling window manager has ever gone back to a traditional one. IMO tiling window managers are superior in every way.

a-dub 4y ago
they're terrible when you need to float windows (like plots, or gui apps, or gui system utilities). i used to think about how i could merge the two and have floating vs. tiling desktops. then i realized i could just run a full screen terminal on one desktop and run tmux within it. it can be a little annoying with just one screen but otherwise great. (incidentally, i also used to be a window maker person, and an actual nextstep person... after those two i ran something extremely lightweight, with small thin window decorations and that's it. i cannot remember the name)
- colordrops 4y ago
  You can float windows in i3.
  - a-dub 4y ago
    yeah... but i remember it not being their core focus and it ending up kinda like a mcdonald's salad. you can do it, but there are better places to go for that. is it good? like if i'm doing something new and something new wants to pop a floating window, can i just keep doing my thing or do i have to start thinking about my window manager? i find that dedicating a screen to tmux and another screen to a classic desktop environment gives the best of both worlds. (subject to the limitation of becoming dependent on multiple screens)
frio 4y ago
I tend to ping-pong between (one of my employers for ~5 years was a Mac shop; still use Windows for gaming etc.), but even almost 2 decades since I first used XMonad, nothing else feels like home. I use Sway on Linux these days because I have a mix of DPIs in my displays, so Wayland is semi-mandatory, and _man_ I miss XMonad.
- colordrops 4y ago
  What do you miss from XMonad vs Sway?
tomjen3 4y ago
I did. Used i3 for a while, but between how slow adjusting window sizes were (I opened new windows often as part of my workflow), and how you can’t hide windows behind others I ultimately found it too limiting. I did love the fact that all shortcuts started with the superkey though. That meant no overlap with any ide (I am looking at you, gnome).
- colordrops 4y ago
  Well you can configure shortcuts to quickly resize windows, and you can hide windows behind each other using tabbing or just different workspaces. I'm curious what your use case is for hiding windows behind each other though.
  - tomjen3 4y ago
    It was simply that I ended up with a lot of windows: an ide, a browser for the site I was building, the debugger for it (and I wanted to switch between them fast), my music app, the company mandated chat app, browser windows with google searches, file browsers, terminals and so on. In the end it was much faster to use the switchers in more traditional managers like Gnome and while you can stack/tab windows they still take up space. Finally, and I think most importantly, while I was using an ultrawide screen at the time, and it was definitely nice to be able to easily split it in two or three windows quickly, I mostly don't need a tileable screen.
  - gigatexal 4y ago
    Yeah it’s really hackable. That’s what I really like as well.
- probotect0r 4y ago
  If I remember correctly, i3 has a stacking mode that lets you hide windows behind others.
  - gigatexal 4y ago
    Yup. Stacking is really useful sometimes.
probotect0r 4y ago
I did. I used i3wm for a long time, but I always missed having a more comprehensive desktop environment. I didn't like having to install a lot of basic utilities separately. Things like screen shot, network management, display management, audio device management, compositing, etc. Add to that the fact that I mostly have the same handful of windows open, and I didn't feel like I needed a tiling manager. I use 1 terminal window with tmux where all my dev work happens, 4 browser windows, and a discord window. As long as I can have work spaces that I can bind to keyboard shortcuts, I am good. KWM is very customizable too, more than I need honestly.
- colordrops 4y ago
  Some good points. Have you tried something like Regolith or pop shell? I forget the name but there's also a toolkit for Sway that includes the kitchen sink. These should give you some of the configurability and tooling of something like Gnome but with tiling.
  - probotect0r 4y ago
    Pop shell seems really nice, but I am not too into GNOME. I know they are trying to make it an independent desktop environment, so looking forward to that.
- Kaze404 4y ago
  You don't need to pick one or the other. i3wm being a window manager, not a fully fledged desktop environment, means you can use it with KDE or Gnome for example.
  - probotect0r 4y ago
    I have gone down that route before too, several times, it is not pretty. The KDE panel and startup splash screen don't play nice with a custom WM. Removing the KDE panel also removes a lot of the kitchen sink functionality I was looking for. The best option for tiling in KDE was using a KWM extension that supported it.
bee_rider 4y ago
Mostly I like i3wm and sway. I used whatever the default Ubuntu DM is (gnome, not sure the version) for a while, because I got a new computer and didn't feel like messing around with .config stuff. Tuned it a little -- actually the gnome tweaks and plugins system is pretty nice! I had an applet that could control my smart-bulbs, and there's one that will invert a window color (I'm sure this is possible in sway but it would probably involve come obscure program I might need to compile). But in the end the draw of proper keyboard controls over my WM is too appealing, switched back to sway. IIRC, one thing that kind of kept me on the floating WM was Zoom. I think the general Zoom workflow depends on drawing a lot of windows of various random sizes, closing and opening them automatically, etc etc. It is a pretty dumb application (but it was mandated from on high, so...).
- colordrops 4y ago
  Agreed, zoom is absolute garbage on a tiling wm. I was able to at least make it useable with some custom config for zoom windows.
willjp 4y ago
I still use a non-tiled wm for specific use cases. Openbox is extremely minimalist and customizable. I use it for games, gimp, and occasionally gui application development. You can add directional selection keybindings etc. so it keeps a tiled-esque feel. I dumped a shellscript in my ~/.zprofile where I can easily switch wms and X configurations without logging out (keep mounts, music, etc). It makes it really painless to switch.
gigatexal 4y ago
I’m never going back. And I’ve used them all.
cneu 4y ago
I used XMonad for about 1 year. Back at FVWM since ca. 8 years, but XMonad influenced the setup quite a bit. The WM is barely noticeable, it manages 2 full screen rxvt/ssh/screen windows, Firefox, Zoom and little else. Keybindings + integration with a self written Plan9 plumber-like tool (edit/modify selection, link to bug db, jira, ... based on selection contents) are the real productivity boosters.
freiherr 4y ago
I don't really feel a difference in productivity. It's usually browser/vscode/terminal with tmux on full screens anyway. The biggest difference for me are the aesthetics and a distraction-free minimalist design. I like to have my pixelspace used with close to no waste. I've switched to windows because of laziness and need to reconfigure my dotfiles after like 6 years of using i3. This week I'm getting a new m2 disk and will be installing arch to finish my rice.

I'm curious if anyone who has put in enough effort to get familiar with a tiling window manager has ever gone back to a traditional one. IMO tiling window managers are superior in every way.

a-dub 4y ago

they're terrible when you need to float windows (like plots, or gui apps, or gui system utilities). i used to think about how i could merge the two and have floating vs. tiling desktops. then i realized i could just run a full screen terminal on one desktop and run tmux within it. it can be a little annoying with just one screen but otherwise great. (incidentally, i also used to be a window maker person, and an actual nextstep person... after those two i ran something extremely lightweight, with small thin window decorations and that's it. i cannot remember the name)

colordrops 4y ago
You can float windows in i3.
- a-dub 4y ago
  yeah... but i remember it not being their core focus and it ending up kinda like a mcdonald's salad. you can do it, but there are better places to go for that. is it good? like if i'm doing something new and something new wants to pop a floating window, can i just keep doing my thing or do i have to start thinking about my window manager? i find that dedicating a screen to tmux and another screen to a classic desktop environment gives the best of both worlds. (subject to the limitation of becoming dependent on multiple screens)

frio 4y ago

I tend to ping-pong between (one of my employers for ~5 years was a Mac shop; still use Windows for gaming etc.), but even almost 2 decades since I first used XMonad, nothing else feels like home. I use Sway on Linux these days because I have a mix of DPIs in my displays, so Wayland is semi-mandatory, and _man_ I miss XMonad.

colordrops 4y ago
What do you miss from XMonad vs Sway?

tomjen3 4y ago

I did. Used i3 for a while, but between how slow adjusting window sizes were (I opened new windows often as part of my workflow), and how you can’t hide windows behind others I ultimately found it too limiting. I did love the fact that all shortcuts started with the superkey though. That meant no overlap with any ide (I am looking at you, gnome).

colordrops 4y ago
Well you can configure shortcuts to quickly resize windows, and you can hide windows behind each other using tabbing or just different workspaces. I'm curious what your use case is for hiding windows behind each other though.
- tomjen3 4y ago
  It was simply that I ended up with a lot of windows: an ide, a browser for the site I was building, the debugger for it (and I wanted to switch between them fast), my music app, the company mandated chat app, browser windows with google searches, file browsers, terminals and so on. In the end it was much faster to use the switchers in more traditional managers like Gnome and while you can stack/tab windows they still take up space. Finally, and I think most importantly, while I was using an ultrawide screen at the time, and it was definitely nice to be able to easily split it in two or three windows quickly, I mostly don't need a tileable screen.
- gigatexal 4y ago
  Yeah it’s really hackable. That’s what I really like as well.
probotect0r 4y ago
If I remember correctly, i3 has a stacking mode that lets you hide windows behind others.
- gigatexal 4y ago
  Yup. Stacking is really useful sometimes.

probotect0r 4y ago

I did. I used i3wm for a long time, but I always missed having a more comprehensive desktop environment. I didn't like having to install a lot of basic utilities separately. Things like screen shot, network management, display management, audio device management, compositing, etc. Add to that the fact that I mostly have the same handful of windows open, and I didn't feel like I needed a tiling manager. I use 1 terminal window with tmux where all my dev work happens, 4 browser windows, and a discord window. As long as I can have work spaces that I can bind to keyboard shortcuts, I am good. KWM is very customizable too, more than I need honestly.

colordrops 4y ago
Some good points. Have you tried something like Regolith or pop shell? I forget the name but there's also a toolkit for Sway that includes the kitchen sink. These should give you some of the configurability and tooling of something like Gnome but with tiling.
- probotect0r 4y ago
  Pop shell seems really nice, but I am not too into GNOME. I know they are trying to make it an independent desktop environment, so looking forward to that.
Kaze404 4y ago
You don't need to pick one or the other. i3wm being a window manager, not a fully fledged desktop environment, means you can use it with KDE or Gnome for example.
- probotect0r 4y ago
  I have gone down that route before too, several times, it is not pretty. The KDE panel and startup splash screen don't play nice with a custom WM. Removing the KDE panel also removes a lot of the kitchen sink functionality I was looking for. The best option for tiling in KDE was using a KWM extension that supported it.

bee_rider 4y ago

Mostly I like i3wm and sway. I used whatever the default Ubuntu DM is (gnome, not sure the version) for a while, because I got a new computer and didn't feel like messing around with .config stuff. Tuned it a little -- actually the gnome tweaks and plugins system is pretty nice! I had an applet that could control my smart-bulbs, and there's one that will invert a window color (I'm sure this is possible in sway but it would probably involve come obscure program I might need to compile). But in the end the draw of proper keyboard controls over my WM is too appealing, switched back to sway. IIRC, one thing that kind of kept me on the floating WM was Zoom. I think the general Zoom workflow depends on drawing a lot of windows of various random sizes, closing and opening them automatically, etc etc. It is a pretty dumb application (but it was mandated from on high, so...).

colordrops 4y ago
Agreed, zoom is absolute garbage on a tiling wm. I was able to at least make it useable with some custom config for zoom windows.

willjp 4y ago

I still use a non-tiled wm for specific use cases. Openbox is extremely minimalist and customizable. I use it for games, gimp, and occasionally gui application development. You can add directional selection keybindings etc. so it keeps a tiled-esque feel. I dumped a shellscript in my ~/.zprofile where I can easily switch wms and X configurations without logging out (keep mounts, music, etc). It makes it really painless to switch.

gigatexal 4y ago

I’m never going back. And I’ve used them all.

cneu 4y ago

I used XMonad for about 1 year. Back at FVWM since ca. 8 years, but XMonad influenced the setup quite a bit. The WM is barely noticeable, it manages 2 full screen rxvt/ssh/screen windows, Firefox, Zoom and little else. Keybindings + integration with a self written Plan9 plumber-like tool (edit/modify selection, link to bug db, jira, ... based on selection contents) are the real productivity boosters.

freiherr 4y ago

I don't really feel a difference in productivity. It's usually browser/vscode/terminal with tmux on full screens anyway. The biggest difference for me are the aesthetics and a distraction-free minimalist design. I like to have my pixelspace used with close to no waste. I've switched to windows because of laziness and need to reconfigure my dotfiles after like 6 years of using i3. This week I'm getting a new m2 disk and will be installing arch to finish my rice.