9 ms·

Toyota’s Chief Says Electric Vehicles Are Overhyped (2020)

34 points by starkd 4y ago

rahimnathwani 4y ago
(2020)
- dang 4y ago
  Added above. Thanks!
flurie 4y ago
Toyota is pretty well known at this point for lobbying against fully electric vehicles. What I can't tell is whether their push for consumer hydrogen fuel cell vehicles was a screen as part of the lobbying effort or a failed marketing/research effort.
- protomyth 4y ago
  I honestly believe that Toyota and Honda have done their analysis in good faith and believe fully electric isn't the correct solution. They could be wrong or right, but I think they gone by it honestly. You don't push hydrogen this long without reason.
  - dehrmann 4y ago
    But Ford decided to build electric F-150s? I don't actually doubt that the research was done in good faith, but I also think internal biases also played into it.
  - germinalphrase 4y ago
    Is storage the primary concern with hydrogen?
    - joatmon-snoo 4y ago
      Distribution is also a big issue now: EV chargers have a much bigger ecosystem around them than hydrogen fuel stations.
      - flurie 4y ago
        My understanding is that hydrogen has a much brighter future in commercial vehicles where fueling station logistics can be much more deliberately planned. I know Toyota does commercial vehicle sales, but I don't know what their hydrogen fuel cell commercial fleet development looks like.
    - KMnO4 4y ago
      Storage in the cars? No. But the infrastructure is lacking. Many people who own a Toyota Mirai (hydrogen) refill it at their Toyota dealership (far less convenient than the electrical grid) and are limited to around 80% fuel capacity (since you need 10,000 PSI to fully fill the tanks).
      - protomyth 4y ago
        I get the feeling that they want to go the way Airbus is looking like it's going to go with airplanes. Plug in containers that would be like propane tanks in the US. Not sure how practical, but it does cut down on some problems.
  - mertd 4y ago
    It's institutional inertia. They are the kings of the ICE world. They are biased against preserving the status quo.
    - flurie 4y ago
      It also seems to be a common misconception that hybrids are a logical intermediary step between ICE and EV, and this is made more confusing by cars like the original Hyundai Ioniq that came in hybrid, plug-in hybrid, and fully electric versions. So I wouldn't be surprised if Toyota's lack of interest appeared to be contrarian when it was the opposite.
  - petre 4y ago
    The Japanese quite conservative and usually for good reasons. Move fast and break things and fail often isn't in their playbook.
    - snek_case 4y ago
      The problem is that hydrogen makes no sense. Most of the hydrogen that we have is produced from fossil fuels, and we have no hydrogen distribution infrastructure. You could argue that electric vehicles are the most conservative solution because we already have a national power grid, and there's a fairly clear path towards producing green electricity.
      - petre 4y ago
        Looking at EVs for personal transport only is short sighted. There are already alternatives, at least in the EU and Asia: trains and e-bikes. https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/energy-and-the-environment/hydrogen-production-and-uses.aspx https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/energy-and...
        breadloaf 4y ago
        eBike = how to expose yourself to elements and then get instantly killed because you didn't see red light.
        petre 4y ago
        The other option is to sit forever in traffic jams, at least in Paris where they converted parking lanes to bicycle infrastructure. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-22/how-paris-will-become-100-cyclable https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-22/how-paris...
- twblalock 4y ago
  They really tried with the hydrogen vehicles, and I think the Japanese government encouraged it as a matter of environmental policy. Now they are scrambling to build battery EVs and whatever lobbying they are doing is a stalling tactic, because they know they need time to catch up with their competitors.
bittercynic 4y ago
They can be overhyped and also an important part of the future of transportation.
- tamaharbor 4y ago
  Unless it is extremely hot, or extremely cold, or you have to go a long way, or if you don’t want to buy an expensive new battery set every five years, or if you don’t have 220v at your house, or if you worry about finding a charging station while you run out of power in traffic, or if you don’t want to use any coal or natural gas to power your car.
  - dirtball_ 4y ago
    You're right! The current technology is less than perfect, so let's stop trying to improve things and burn fossil fuels forever! What an excellent take.
    - Smoosh 4y ago
      Fossil fuels? they can be toxic, difficult to transport, polluting, and worst of all, highly combustible, even explosive! I can't imagine us adopting a technology with such flaws, it could never be made to work. /s
  - throwaway742 4y ago
    I thought every house in the US at least has 220v.
    - Smoosh 4y ago
      only those without strawmen living in them.
    - booi 4y ago
      Yes every house in the US does has 220V or 240V. Either way a good majority of people can probably even get away with 120V. Not ideal but good enough for most commutes. But honestly there’s a lot of people that exclusively charge at superchargers.
oldstrangers 4y ago
Blockbuster says streaming services are overhyped!
- booi 4y ago
  Blimps say planes are overhyped!
  - hinkley 4y ago
    Horses say cars are scary.
    - breadloaf 4y ago
      Battery cars say that Ford T is scary.
BirAdam 4y ago
He raised a valid point. Industrialized countries have power grids and the like that were built before such demands for power existed. Adding millions of electric cars in a short time would be a problem for sure, and it would likely lead to coal and gas turbine power plants as those are cheap and quick to set up. Gas turbine actually isn’t too bad but coal is. Also, the need to somehow recycle and dispose of all of the internal combustion engine cars would be a problem. The thing is, these laws only prevent the sale of new vehicles using petrol, not driving the ones that already exist. Toyota does have hybrids and those seem to be acceptable under many of these laws. The main thing bothering me currently is just the battery tech. I would prefer something that didn’t involve destructive mining and crazy foreign policies like oil and lithium do. But, wants are infinite and technology and resources aren’t.
- metadat 4y ago
  100% agree, also I wish the batteries didn't turn into garbage within only a few years (10-20 yrs max), many vehicles stay on the road much longer than that today.
  - jurmous 4y ago
    Batteries don’t turn into garbage when you look real life data: https://maartensteinbuch.com/2015/01/24/tesla-model-s-battery-degradation-data/ https://maartensteinbuch.com/2015/01/24/tesla-model-s-batter... Quote: On average the batteries have 91% remaining at 270.000 km (170,000 miles). If the linear behavior would continue, then the ‘lifetime’ (still 80% capacity left) can be calculated as follows: 91-80 = 11% times 50.000 km = 550.000 km, plus 270.000 km, gives 820.000 km (510,000 miles)! Note that a ICE car has a average lifetime of 220.000 km (140,000 miles)… And remember: if an ICE fails after say 300.000 km, you have a problem. The battery in a Tesla EV after the suggested 820.000 km (ok, lets take 500.000 km, still great!) still has 80% capacity left!
    - bb88 4y ago
      That may be. We'll need to wait for the data, which could go off a cliff still. But what we do know is if you have an outlier, it's pretty damn costly. https://people.com/human-interest/tesla-owner-blows-up-his-car-when-faced-with-22000-repair-bill https://people.com/human-interest/tesla-owner-blows-up-his-c...
midhhhthrow 4y ago
I got the cheapest tesla solar panels you can get and that produces more than x3 the electricity I need to power an electric car for 7k miles per year
- Markoff 4y ago
  You are welcome.
rr808 4y ago
I'd quite like an EV but prices keep going up and up as demand increases. Even with today's high gas prices financially it doesn't make sense for me.
- snek_case 4y ago
  The prices will decrease eventually. The prices have come up because of high demand. Tesla is selling as many EVs as it can make right now, and with great margins. Those margins will ensure that production keeps expanding to meet demand. It sucks that the prices are high because it keeps some people out for the moment, but production is expanding as fast as it can. Capitalism makes it so the people with the deepest pockets will get EVs first, but that's still many less gas-powered cars off the roads, and we're still going to transition to EVs.
  - Markoff 4y ago
    operation cost makes no sense, especially now with electricity prices growth(at least in Europe) is pretty much same or even cheaper to drive ICE car than EV, mind that's with extreme gas taxation with still almost no tax on electricity, do you really believe if majority of cars would be EVs gov won't introduce new electricity prices to milk the owners? comparing ICE and EVs is not fair, because the latter one is susbisidized from everyone's money, without subsidy they are extremely expensive, their operation cost is same or higher (and let's better not talk about how long will last batteries long term and their replacement cost) despite low taxes
    - kreetx 4y ago
      They are very well comparable as both get you from A to B. Also, a sibling comment[1] seems to say that gas prices have risen more thus making it now even more cheaper to drive an EV than an ICE. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31984490 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31984490
      - Markoff 4y ago
        not where I live in Europe, while gas prices risen a lot, electricity risen even more
jti107 4y ago
there is a talk by Tony Seba on technological disruptions on Youtube that I find really interesting. in it he talks about the adoption of new novel technology as an S curve. so when a tech is new its expensive and there are very few adopters but if its genuinely useful then it will slowly disrupt the old technology until it hits a tipping point and the old tech is replaced exponentially. due to the exponential growth, the cost comes down due to economies of scale. the examples he gives are going from horses to cars, flip phones to smart phones (nokia, blackberry), solar panels, etc. if this does happen in electric vehicles, then any companies that doesnt have a foot in the door will quickly lose market share. i'm a bit scared for toyota bc batteries require alot of infrastructure and materials that need to be developed ahead of time. by the time toyota comes around they might be so behind tesla, vw, gm, ford, etc. in cost that they cant compete on cost or range.
- esalman 4y ago
  > if its genuinely useful That is a big if.
  - snek_case 4y ago
    Besides the feeling that you're doing something good for the environment, EVs do have some genuinely nice advantages, including much less maintenance, being easier to drive, having better acceleration and traction (you can drive different motors and wheels at different rates), and being able to charge at home. Range can be an issue for some people when going on long trips (> 300 miles), but the technology will keep improving. I'm sure we'll see EVs with 10 to 15 minute charge times before the end of the decade. It would be a huge competitive advantage to have ultrafast charging, so it's an obvious thing to optimize for.
jaimex2 4y ago
Toyota bet on the wrong horse with Hydrogen and I guess they're now going through the 5 stages of grief. EVs are already proven for suburban use. Time will tell if 4WDs need to be ICE, Toyota will be praying Ford and Tesla fail.
- breadloaf 4y ago
  EVs are completely missing masses. Only rich people have money to buy a car for 30k-60k EUR
  - timbit42 4y ago
    They are getting cheaper every year and will be cheaper than ICE vehicles within 10 years. There are also more used EVs on the market each year.
4wsn 4y ago
olivermarks 4y ago
'if Japan is too hasty in banning gasoline-powered cars, “the current business model of the car industry is going to collapse,” causing the loss of millions of jobs'. This Toyota article is one year old. France is realizing the same potential disaster is on the horizon: https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/stellantis-warns-of-car-market-collapse-if-evs-dont-get-cheaper/ar-AAYZXp3 https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/stellantis-warns-of-ca... The reality is that Asia has a huge advantage in BEV manufacture and also owns large chunks of Africa where the rare earth minerals are. I suspect personal transportation is being phased out for the average person, only the elites will have access to vehicles. The rest of us will have to rely on electric bicycles and pre permissioned autonomous buggy travel. The BEV trapped energy thermal runaway fire risks, recycling challenges and grid inadequacies issues are not going to be solved anytime soon.
- softgrow 4y ago
  How common are thermal runaway fires? Adelaide, roughly 1,000,000 vehicles, 99% ICE gets one or two vehicle fires each day (Winter at the moment) https://sapaging.com/jobs?MFS=1&type=vehicle%20fire https://sapaging.com/jobs?MFS=1&type=vehicle%20fire
  - olivermarks 4y ago
    It's hard to say how 'common' they are given the relatively small number of new BEVs on the roads, but the NTSB are clear they are a serious problem with few consistent standards or training for incidents. The huge challenge with BEVs is that trapped energy has to escape if the batteries are compromised or faulty. Like n air compressor the pressurized electricity has to escape Lithium-Ion Battery Fires in Electric Vehicles - Safety Risks to Emergency Responders https://youtu.be/J6eS6JzBn0k https://youtu.be/J6eS6JzBn0k
abrax3141 4y ago
As this article is firewalled I don't know if this is mentioned in the article, but I heard a Toyota exec (I think it was) once express the following theory for preferring plug-in hybrids to EVS: As most people drive under 30 miles/day most days, and batteries are a limited resource, by giving millions of people 10-40 miles (depending on the model) instead of a few hundred thousand people 300 miles that they almost never use, you end up saving way more energy. Of course this is merely aspirational; they haven't sold millions of plug-in hybrids, but they have sold millions of hybrids (6m+!), and the argument extends in slightly weaker form to their whole hybrid line, so it doesn't sound on-the-face-of-it stupid.
neonate 4y ago
https://archive.ph/t63VN https://archive.ph/t63VN
cincinnatus 4y ago
Toyota completely botched the transition. They were in the lead with Prius and then they make several strange strategic errors. This sounds like rationalization to me at this point. Cheap electric vehicles are very well within reach, especially for highly urban places. And PV for remote locations is totally possible right now, no grid.

34 points by starkd 4y ago

rahimnathwani 4y ago

(2020)

dang 4y ago
Added above. Thanks!

flurie 4y ago

Toyota is pretty well known at this point for lobbying against fully electric vehicles. What I can't tell is whether their push for consumer hydrogen fuel cell vehicles was a screen as part of the lobbying effort or a failed marketing/research effort.

protomyth 4y ago
I honestly believe that Toyota and Honda have done their analysis in good faith and believe fully electric isn't the correct solution. They could be wrong or right, but I think they gone by it honestly. You don't push hydrogen this long without reason.
- dehrmann 4y ago
  But Ford decided to build electric F-150s? I don't actually doubt that the research was done in good faith, but I also think internal biases also played into it.
- germinalphrase 4y ago
  Is storage the primary concern with hydrogen?
  - joatmon-snoo 4y ago
    Distribution is also a big issue now: EV chargers have a much bigger ecosystem around them than hydrogen fuel stations.
    - flurie 4y ago
      My understanding is that hydrogen has a much brighter future in commercial vehicles where fueling station logistics can be much more deliberately planned. I know Toyota does commercial vehicle sales, but I don't know what their hydrogen fuel cell commercial fleet development looks like.
  - KMnO4 4y ago
    Storage in the cars? No. But the infrastructure is lacking. Many people who own a Toyota Mirai (hydrogen) refill it at their Toyota dealership (far less convenient than the electrical grid) and are limited to around 80% fuel capacity (since you need 10,000 PSI to fully fill the tanks).
    - protomyth 4y ago
      I get the feeling that they want to go the way Airbus is looking like it's going to go with airplanes. Plug in containers that would be like propane tanks in the US. Not sure how practical, but it does cut down on some problems.
- mertd 4y ago
  It's institutional inertia. They are the kings of the ICE world. They are biased against preserving the status quo.
  - flurie 4y ago
    It also seems to be a common misconception that hybrids are a logical intermediary step between ICE and EV, and this is made more confusing by cars like the original Hyundai Ioniq that came in hybrid, plug-in hybrid, and fully electric versions. So I wouldn't be surprised if Toyota's lack of interest appeared to be contrarian when it was the opposite.
- petre 4y ago
  The Japanese quite conservative and usually for good reasons. Move fast and break things and fail often isn't in their playbook.
  - snek_case 4y ago
    The problem is that hydrogen makes no sense. Most of the hydrogen that we have is produced from fossil fuels, and we have no hydrogen distribution infrastructure. You could argue that electric vehicles are the most conservative solution because we already have a national power grid, and there's a fairly clear path towards producing green electricity.
    - petre 4y ago
      Looking at EVs for personal transport only is short sighted. There are already alternatives, at least in the EU and Asia: trains and e-bikes. https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/energy-and-the-environment/hydrogen-production-and-uses.aspx https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/energy-and...
      - breadloaf 4y ago
        eBike = how to expose yourself to elements and then get instantly killed because you didn't see red light.
        petre 4y ago
        The other option is to sit forever in traffic jams, at least in Paris where they converted parking lanes to bicycle infrastructure. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-22/how-paris-will-become-100-cyclable https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-22/how-paris...
twblalock 4y ago
They really tried with the hydrogen vehicles, and I think the Japanese government encouraged it as a matter of environmental policy. Now they are scrambling to build battery EVs and whatever lobbying they are doing is a stalling tactic, because they know they need time to catch up with their competitors.

bittercynic 4y ago

They can be overhyped and also an important part of the future of transportation.

tamaharbor 4y ago
Unless it is extremely hot, or extremely cold, or you have to go a long way, or if you don’t want to buy an expensive new battery set every five years, or if you don’t have 220v at your house, or if you worry about finding a charging station while you run out of power in traffic, or if you don’t want to use any coal or natural gas to power your car.
- dirtball_ 4y ago
  You're right! The current technology is less than perfect, so let's stop trying to improve things and burn fossil fuels forever! What an excellent take.
  - Smoosh 4y ago
    Fossil fuels? they can be toxic, difficult to transport, polluting, and worst of all, highly combustible, even explosive! I can't imagine us adopting a technology with such flaws, it could never be made to work. /s
- throwaway742 4y ago
  I thought every house in the US at least has 220v.
  - Smoosh 4y ago
    only those without strawmen living in them.
  - booi 4y ago
    Yes every house in the US does has 220V or 240V. Either way a good majority of people can probably even get away with 120V. Not ideal but good enough for most commutes. But honestly there’s a lot of people that exclusively charge at superchargers.

oldstrangers 4y ago

Blockbuster says streaming services are overhyped!

booi 4y ago
Blimps say planes are overhyped!
- hinkley 4y ago
  Horses say cars are scary.
  - breadloaf 4y ago
    Battery cars say that Ford T is scary.

BirAdam 4y ago

He raised a valid point. Industrialized countries have power grids and the like that were built before such demands for power existed. Adding millions of electric cars in a short time would be a problem for sure, and it would likely lead to coal and gas turbine power plants as those are cheap and quick to set up. Gas turbine actually isn’t too bad but coal is. Also, the need to somehow recycle and dispose of all of the internal combustion engine cars would be a problem. The thing is, these laws only prevent the sale of new vehicles using petrol, not driving the ones that already exist. Toyota does have hybrids and those seem to be acceptable under many of these laws. The main thing bothering me currently is just the battery tech. I would prefer something that didn’t involve destructive mining and crazy foreign policies like oil and lithium do. But, wants are infinite and technology and resources aren’t.

metadat 4y ago
100% agree, also I wish the batteries didn't turn into garbage within only a few years (10-20 yrs max), many vehicles stay on the road much longer than that today.
- jurmous 4y ago
  Batteries don’t turn into garbage when you look real life data: https://maartensteinbuch.com/2015/01/24/tesla-model-s-battery-degradation-data/ https://maartensteinbuch.com/2015/01/24/tesla-model-s-batter... Quote: On average the batteries have 91% remaining at 270.000 km (170,000 miles). If the linear behavior would continue, then the ‘lifetime’ (still 80% capacity left) can be calculated as follows: 91-80 = 11% times 50.000 km = 550.000 km, plus 270.000 km, gives 820.000 km (510,000 miles)! Note that a ICE car has a average lifetime of 220.000 km (140,000 miles)… And remember: if an ICE fails after say 300.000 km, you have a problem. The battery in a Tesla EV after the suggested 820.000 km (ok, lets take 500.000 km, still great!) still has 80% capacity left!
  - bb88 4y ago
    That may be. We'll need to wait for the data, which could go off a cliff still. But what we do know is if you have an outlier, it's pretty damn costly. https://people.com/human-interest/tesla-owner-blows-up-his-car-when-faced-with-22000-repair-bill https://people.com/human-interest/tesla-owner-blows-up-his-c...

midhhhthrow 4y ago

I got the cheapest tesla solar panels you can get and that produces more than x3 the electricity I need to power an electric car for 7k miles per year

Markoff 4y ago
You are welcome.

rr808 4y ago

I'd quite like an EV but prices keep going up and up as demand increases. Even with today's high gas prices financially it doesn't make sense for me.

snek_case 4y ago
The prices will decrease eventually. The prices have come up because of high demand. Tesla is selling as many EVs as it can make right now, and with great margins. Those margins will ensure that production keeps expanding to meet demand. It sucks that the prices are high because it keeps some people out for the moment, but production is expanding as fast as it can. Capitalism makes it so the people with the deepest pockets will get EVs first, but that's still many less gas-powered cars off the roads, and we're still going to transition to EVs.
- Markoff 4y ago
  operation cost makes no sense, especially now with electricity prices growth(at least in Europe) is pretty much same or even cheaper to drive ICE car than EV, mind that's with extreme gas taxation with still almost no tax on electricity, do you really believe if majority of cars would be EVs gov won't introduce new electricity prices to milk the owners? comparing ICE and EVs is not fair, because the latter one is susbisidized from everyone's money, without subsidy they are extremely expensive, their operation cost is same or higher (and let's better not talk about how long will last batteries long term and their replacement cost) despite low taxes
  - kreetx 4y ago
    They are very well comparable as both get you from A to B. Also, a sibling comment[1] seems to say that gas prices have risen more thus making it now even more cheaper to drive an EV than an ICE. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31984490 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31984490
    - Markoff 4y ago
      not where I live in Europe, while gas prices risen a lot, electricity risen even more

jti107 4y ago

there is a talk by Tony Seba on technological disruptions on Youtube that I find really interesting. in it he talks about the adoption of new novel technology as an S curve. so when a tech is new its expensive and there are very few adopters but if its genuinely useful then it will slowly disrupt the old technology until it hits a tipping point and the old tech is replaced exponentially. due to the exponential growth, the cost comes down due to economies of scale. the examples he gives are going from horses to cars, flip phones to smart phones (nokia, blackberry), solar panels, etc. if this does happen in electric vehicles, then any companies that doesnt have a foot in the door will quickly lose market share. i'm a bit scared for toyota bc batteries require alot of infrastructure and materials that need to be developed ahead of time. by the time toyota comes around they might be so behind tesla, vw, gm, ford, etc. in cost that they cant compete on cost or range.

esalman 4y ago
> if its genuinely useful That is a big if.
- snek_case 4y ago
  Besides the feeling that you're doing something good for the environment, EVs do have some genuinely nice advantages, including much less maintenance, being easier to drive, having better acceleration and traction (you can drive different motors and wheels at different rates), and being able to charge at home. Range can be an issue for some people when going on long trips (> 300 miles), but the technology will keep improving. I'm sure we'll see EVs with 10 to 15 minute charge times before the end of the decade. It would be a huge competitive advantage to have ultrafast charging, so it's an obvious thing to optimize for.

jaimex2 4y ago

Toyota bet on the wrong horse with Hydrogen and I guess they're now going through the 5 stages of grief. EVs are already proven for suburban use. Time will tell if 4WDs need to be ICE, Toyota will be praying Ford and Tesla fail.

breadloaf 4y ago
EVs are completely missing masses. Only rich people have money to buy a car for 30k-60k EUR
- timbit42 4y ago
  They are getting cheaper every year and will be cheaper than ICE vehicles within 10 years. There are also more used EVs on the market each year.

4wsn 4y ago

olivermarks 4y ago

'if Japan is too hasty in banning gasoline-powered cars, “the current business model of the car industry is going to collapse,” causing the loss of millions of jobs'. This Toyota article is one year old. France is realizing the same potential disaster is on the horizon: https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/stellantis-warns-of-car-market-collapse-if-evs-dont-get-cheaper/ar-AAYZXp3 https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/stellantis-warns-of-ca... The reality is that Asia has a huge advantage in BEV manufacture and also owns large chunks of Africa where the rare earth minerals are. I suspect personal transportation is being phased out for the average person, only the elites will have access to vehicles. The rest of us will have to rely on electric bicycles and pre permissioned autonomous buggy travel. The BEV trapped energy thermal runaway fire risks, recycling challenges and grid inadequacies issues are not going to be solved anytime soon.

softgrow 4y ago
How common are thermal runaway fires? Adelaide, roughly 1,000,000 vehicles, 99% ICE gets one or two vehicle fires each day (Winter at the moment) https://sapaging.com/jobs?MFS=1&type=vehicle%20fire https://sapaging.com/jobs?MFS=1&type=vehicle%20fire
- olivermarks 4y ago
  It's hard to say how 'common' they are given the relatively small number of new BEVs on the roads, but the NTSB are clear they are a serious problem with few consistent standards or training for incidents. The huge challenge with BEVs is that trapped energy has to escape if the batteries are compromised or faulty. Like n air compressor the pressurized electricity has to escape Lithium-Ion Battery Fires in Electric Vehicles - Safety Risks to Emergency Responders https://youtu.be/J6eS6JzBn0k https://youtu.be/J6eS6JzBn0k

abrax3141 4y ago

As this article is firewalled I don't know if this is mentioned in the article, but I heard a Toyota exec (I think it was) once express the following theory for preferring plug-in hybrids to EVS: As most people drive under 30 miles/day most days, and batteries are a limited resource, by giving millions of people 10-40 miles (depending on the model) instead of a few hundred thousand people 300 miles that they almost never use, you end up saving way more energy. Of course this is merely aspirational; they haven't sold millions of plug-in hybrids, but they have sold millions of hybrids (6m+!), and the argument extends in slightly weaker form to their whole hybrid line, so it doesn't sound on-the-face-of-it stupid.

neonate 4y ago

https://archive.ph/t63VN https://archive.ph/t63VN

cincinnatus 4y ago

Toyota completely botched the transition. They were in the lead with Prius and then they make several strange strategic errors. This sounds like rationalization to me at this point. Cheap electric vehicles are very well within reach, especially for highly urban places. And PV for remote locations is totally possible right now, no grid.