4 ms·

Wow, this is complete opposite of America. I have run several bars/restaurants and most of our money came from alcohol sales. Food was still profitable, but muc

by bavent 4y ago

Wow, this is complete opposite of America. I have run several bars/restaurants and most of our money came from alcohol sales. Food was still profitable, but much tighter margins. A lot more labor goes into the food side of the business too, and we couldn't get away with marking things up 4x like you can with wine. I think as you get into Michelin-starred places, the name of the chef and the quality of the food is enough to allow you to charge more, and also to cheap out on labor - some of the top restaurants in Chicago collude to pay their cooks $10-12/hr, for example.

heavyset_go 4y ago
I was under the impression that margins on alcohol were huge. At least where I am, proprietors trip over themselves to get alcohol licenses, and those licenses go for hefty premiums.
- bavent 4y ago
  They are - usually a place will charge 3-4x, sometimes 5-6x depending on the type of liquor and brand, what they paid for the product. You lose a bit to labor if you're making craft cocktails, as there can be a lot of prep behind those. Having a good wine list usually means have a sommelier or wine steward who will get paid a bit more than the rest of the serving staff. But for the most part the labor costs for front-of-house are nothing ($2.13/hr in a lot of states) compared to the cooking staff.
- browningstreet 4y ago
  I have a friend who owns a popular bar and a popular coffee shop. He says he makes far more profit off the coffee shop (which has baked goods and sandwiches and salads) than the bar. Might be different in disparate places.
- ransom1538 4y ago
  "I wish I had opened a bar" - every restaurant owner I have met.
algorias 4y ago
I'd think those low wages are also partly explained by the desirability of working at a top place (good for your CV and for acquiring actual skills). Pretty similar to how the game industry attracts talent out of proportion to the monetary compensation they pay.
- bavent 4y ago
  They're 100% explained by that, not just partially. At all of the top-rated restaurants in every city I've cooked in, all the chefs are buddies. It's very common for there to be a tacit agreement to just not pay more than $X, that way they can all keep labor costs down.
  - throwawaycuriou 4y ago
    do you have any sourced examples for this collusion? a friend of mine bailed the craft after being offered minimum wage and a 60 hour requirement in the kitchen of a Michelin star restaurant in NYC
    - bavent 4y ago
      It's me, I'm the source. I worked in a lot of those Michelin-starred places in quite a few cities. I also bailed. The pay and hours were a large part of it. But I did it for years and years.
      - throwawaycuriou 4y ago
        has there been any attempt to pursue this legally?
        bavent 4y ago
        I know there have been some higher-profile suits filed against some famous and semi-famous chefs for unpaid wages/stolen tips (Mario Batali, Tom Douglas, Charlie Trotter, a few others), but it's hard to directly challenge collusion like this when it's very unofficial. And a quick way to end your career and get blacklisted from any other high end restaurant.

by bavent 4y ago

heavyset_go 4y ago

I was under the impression that margins on alcohol were huge. At least where I am, proprietors trip over themselves to get alcohol licenses, and those licenses go for hefty premiums.

bavent 4y ago
They are - usually a place will charge 3-4x, sometimes 5-6x depending on the type of liquor and brand, what they paid for the product. You lose a bit to labor if you're making craft cocktails, as there can be a lot of prep behind those. Having a good wine list usually means have a sommelier or wine steward who will get paid a bit more than the rest of the serving staff. But for the most part the labor costs for front-of-house are nothing ($2.13/hr in a lot of states) compared to the cooking staff.
browningstreet 4y ago
I have a friend who owns a popular bar and a popular coffee shop. He says he makes far more profit off the coffee shop (which has baked goods and sandwiches and salads) than the bar. Might be different in disparate places.
ransom1538 4y ago
"I wish I had opened a bar" - every restaurant owner I have met.

algorias 4y ago

I'd think those low wages are also partly explained by the desirability of working at a top place (good for your CV and for acquiring actual skills). Pretty similar to how the game industry attracts talent out of proportion to the monetary compensation they pay.

bavent 4y ago
They're 100% explained by that, not just partially. At all of the top-rated restaurants in every city I've cooked in, all the chefs are buddies. It's very common for there to be a tacit agreement to just not pay more than $X, that way they can all keep labor costs down.
- throwawaycuriou 4y ago
  do you have any sourced examples for this collusion? a friend of mine bailed the craft after being offered minimum wage and a 60 hour requirement in the kitchen of a Michelin star restaurant in NYC
  - bavent 4y ago
    It's me, I'm the source. I worked in a lot of those Michelin-starred places in quite a few cities. I also bailed. The pay and hours were a large part of it. But I did it for years and years.
    - throwawaycuriou 4y ago
      has there been any attempt to pursue this legally?
      - bavent 4y ago
        I know there have been some higher-profile suits filed against some famous and semi-famous chefs for unpaid wages/stolen tips (Mario Batali, Tom Douglas, Charlie Trotter, a few others), but it's hard to directly challenge collusion like this when it's very unofficial. And a quick way to end your career and get blacklisted from any other high end restaurant.