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I want to raise another contributor: volume. At most bars in large cities, if I'm in a group of six people, I can not hear someone talking who isn't sitting dir

I want to raise another contributor: volume. At most bars in large cities, if I'm in a group of six people, I can not hear someone talking who isn't sitting directly next to me. The parent commenter said "Take something like the bar in [the television show] How I Met Your Mother. Obviously this is all fictional and these characters spend a lot of time there". The only reason they can meet there and hear each other is because the bar is silent and they're actually on a sound stage. Watch any show where any characters interact at a bar: they talk comfortably in a way that would not work in real life. Bars and restaurants have simply gotten measurably louder to the point where people are choosing to meet at home instead. When English Pubs and U.S. speakeasies became popular, amplified music was not a thing. Even the name "speakeasy" comes from the fact that people could and did speak quietly in the bars! > But consider a 1993 study of about a dozen dining establishments, which found that sound levels peaked at 68 decibels (a little louder than normal chitchat). Compare that with a much larger 2018 survey of New York City restaurants, in which one-quarter hit at least 81 decibels (more like a garbage disposal), the average level was 77, and just 10 percent were 70 decibels or below. The report deemed those “quiet.” https://www.popsci.com/story/technology/restaurant-noise-levels-solutions/ https://www.popsci.com/story/technology/restaurant-noise-lev... Scientific papers abound https://www.scirp.org/journal/paperinformation.aspx?paperid=86590 https://www.scirp.org/journal/paperinformation.aspx?paperid=... > There are increasing numbers of reports from patrons complaining about the difficulty in conversing with fellow diners due to loud venues. In Zagat’s 2016 Annual Survey, when surveyors were asked what irritated them the most about dining out, noise was the second highest complaint (25%) behind poor service (28%). But in major urban cities of San Francisco, Boston, Portland and New York City, noise was the number one complaint [34]

OJFord 4y ago
Very good point. It's worse than not fixing it, the trend is to make it worse, by removing soft furnishings etc. Saw an article recently on loud restaurants (the loudest in the world are in London, followed by SF iirc) - the top few in London were measured as so loud that per the law (I assume it's not known/adhered to) they have to provide staff with hearing protection from the injurious volume!
dpeck 4y ago
This is a huge thing to me and many others who I’ve spoken with. My spouse seems to be able to handle it just fine, but to me it’s just a wall of sound all around me and it has led to frustration that they cannot hear me and I cannot hear them. It’s become true at even many very “nice” restaurants as the open kitchen, open spaces, and hard surfaces everywhere aesthetic has taken over nearly everything.
- maerek 4y ago
  Strong seconding here. I have a low voice that doesn’t travel well in noisy environments. It’s pretty tiring having to shout an entire night out just to converse across the table.
  - Atheros 4y ago
    I've found that people cannot think deeply about much of anything when it's loud. They can answer simple fact-based questions about themselves and not much else. Useless.
viraptor 4y ago
> Even the name "speakeasy" comes from the fact that people could and did speak quietly in the bars! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speakeasy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speakeasy The more common explanation is that it's a place where you have to speak easy to not attract attention. It makes sense too, since without amplified music being popular why would the speakeasy be specifically quiet rather than just "like everywhere else".
laurencerowe 4y ago
I’ve read that bars getting louder was in part deliberate since people drink more quickly when they have a hard time having a conversation.
- SoftTalker 4y ago
  Yeah. In restaurants it's also to increase table turnover.
LegitShady 4y ago
>Bars and restaurants have simply gotten measurably louder to the point where people are choosing to meet at home instead. When English Pubs and U.S. speakeasies became popular, amplified music was not a thing. Even the name "speakeasy" comes from the fact that people could and did speak quietly in the bars! I agree 100% there are even some 'trendy' stores I've visited where the volume of the music was so loud I just left and have never gone back. There are some 'clubs' that are just immediate hearing loss damage, and everyone who goes there will pay for it later in life. Just a massive wall of sound that is waaaay outside safe hearing for any length of time - noisier than any construction zone.
- Atheros 4y ago
  People aren't meant to talk on a dance floor and wearing earplugs is common. Bars and the quieter zones of clubs are different though: we're meant to socialize. People are opting out of the whole thing and I think it's because of the volume. Go to any bar during the summer that has music inside and a quiet outside and watch where most people go. I strongly think that the patrons themselves don't actually recognize why they even like outside so much better.
  - mecha_ghidorah 4y ago
    Wait. If people are wearing ear plugs why not just have the music at a volume where it doesn't literally damage and hurt people instead? I am so confused
    - Handytinge 4y ago
      Well then the people with the earplugs in couldn't hear, could they?
cletus 4y ago
I'm with you on group size and volume. I'll add another: a lot of bars tend to be annoyingly dark. Volume could either be music or TV. Sports bars are big in the US. When faced with unkowns, I'll tend to gravitate to hotel bars for this reason. Not too busy, not too loud, not too dark, as a general rule. It's also why i tend to prefer going out to eat at off-peak times.
DoughnutHole 4y ago
Eh, here in Ireland nearly anywhere I'd describe as a "pub" is still relatively quiet unless it's a busy night with live music. Most pubs don't have particularly loud piped music, or they have none at all. Now there are a host of modern "bars" with extended drink and cocktail menus and cacophonous piped music, especially in city centres. But in most traditional pubs the ambient noise comes almost entirely from the patrons.
robonerd 4y ago
Even without music or a TV playing, many bars can be deafening simply due to the way the room is designed and decorated. There is a lot that can be done to address this, like sound baffles on the ceiling, but most bars either don't care or prefer to keep the room loud.
ascagnel_ 4y ago
> The parent commenter said "Take something like the bar in [the television show] How I Met Your Mother. Obviously this is all fictional and these characters spend a lot of time there". The only reason they can meet there and hear each other is because the bar is silent and they're actually on a sound stage. Watch any show where any characters interact at a bar: they talk comfortably in a way that would not work in real life. The bar in the show is (very) loosely based on a real-world location: McGee's Pub in midtown Manhattan. While I haven't visited in quite a few years, when I did visit, the pub was typically quiet enough to have a conversation at your table without raising your voice.
ascorbic 4y ago
That's not something I'd say applies in the UK. Save for large city-centre pubs on Friday night, most are relatively quiet. If it's too loud to have a conversation then someobody is guaranteed to ask them to turn it down. Having a conversation is one of the main reasons to go to the pub. It's pretty much the only place in the UK where it's normal to strike up conversation with a stranger.

OJFord 4y ago

Very good point. It's worse than not fixing it, the trend is to make it worse, by removing soft furnishings etc. Saw an article recently on loud restaurants (the loudest in the world are in London, followed by SF iirc) - the top few in London were measured as so loud that per the law (I assume it's not known/adhered to) they have to provide staff with hearing protection from the injurious volume!

dpeck 4y ago

This is a huge thing to me and many others who I’ve spoken with. My spouse seems to be able to handle it just fine, but to me it’s just a wall of sound all around me and it has led to frustration that they cannot hear me and I cannot hear them. It’s become true at even many very “nice” restaurants as the open kitchen, open spaces, and hard surfaces everywhere aesthetic has taken over nearly everything.

maerek 4y ago
Strong seconding here. I have a low voice that doesn’t travel well in noisy environments. It’s pretty tiring having to shout an entire night out just to converse across the table.
- Atheros 4y ago
  I've found that people cannot think deeply about much of anything when it's loud. They can answer simple fact-based questions about themselves and not much else. Useless.

viraptor 4y ago

> Even the name "speakeasy" comes from the fact that people could and did speak quietly in the bars! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speakeasy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speakeasy The more common explanation is that it's a place where you have to speak easy to not attract attention. It makes sense too, since without amplified music being popular why would the speakeasy be specifically quiet rather than just "like everywhere else".

laurencerowe 4y ago

I’ve read that bars getting louder was in part deliberate since people drink more quickly when they have a hard time having a conversation.

SoftTalker 4y ago
Yeah. In restaurants it's also to increase table turnover.

LegitShady 4y ago

>Bars and restaurants have simply gotten measurably louder to the point where people are choosing to meet at home instead. When English Pubs and U.S. speakeasies became popular, amplified music was not a thing. Even the name "speakeasy" comes from the fact that people could and did speak quietly in the bars! I agree 100% there are even some 'trendy' stores I've visited where the volume of the music was so loud I just left and have never gone back. There are some 'clubs' that are just immediate hearing loss damage, and everyone who goes there will pay for it later in life. Just a massive wall of sound that is waaaay outside safe hearing for any length of time - noisier than any construction zone.

Atheros 4y ago
People aren't meant to talk on a dance floor and wearing earplugs is common. Bars and the quieter zones of clubs are different though: we're meant to socialize. People are opting out of the whole thing and I think it's because of the volume. Go to any bar during the summer that has music inside and a quiet outside and watch where most people go. I strongly think that the patrons themselves don't actually recognize why they even like outside so much better.
- mecha_ghidorah 4y ago
  Wait. If people are wearing ear plugs why not just have the music at a volume where it doesn't literally damage and hurt people instead? I am so confused
  - Handytinge 4y ago
    Well then the people with the earplugs in couldn't hear, could they?

cletus 4y ago

I'm with you on group size and volume. I'll add another: a lot of bars tend to be annoyingly dark. Volume could either be music or TV. Sports bars are big in the US. When faced with unkowns, I'll tend to gravitate to hotel bars for this reason. Not too busy, not too loud, not too dark, as a general rule. It's also why i tend to prefer going out to eat at off-peak times.

DoughnutHole 4y ago

Eh, here in Ireland nearly anywhere I'd describe as a "pub" is still relatively quiet unless it's a busy night with live music. Most pubs don't have particularly loud piped music, or they have none at all. Now there are a host of modern "bars" with extended drink and cocktail menus and cacophonous piped music, especially in city centres. But in most traditional pubs the ambient noise comes almost entirely from the patrons.

robonerd 4y ago

Even without music or a TV playing, many bars can be deafening simply due to the way the room is designed and decorated. There is a lot that can be done to address this, like sound baffles on the ceiling, but most bars either don't care or prefer to keep the room loud.

ascagnel_ 4y ago

> The parent commenter said "Take something like the bar in [the television show] How I Met Your Mother. Obviously this is all fictional and these characters spend a lot of time there". The only reason they can meet there and hear each other is because the bar is silent and they're actually on a sound stage. Watch any show where any characters interact at a bar: they talk comfortably in a way that would not work in real life. The bar in the show is (very) loosely based on a real-world location: McGee's Pub in midtown Manhattan. While I haven't visited in quite a few years, when I did visit, the pub was typically quiet enough to have a conversation at your table without raising your voice.

ascorbic 4y ago

That's not something I'd say applies in the UK. Save for large city-centre pubs on Friday night, most are relatively quiet. If it's too loud to have a conversation then someobody is guaranteed to ask them to turn it down. Having a conversation is one of the main reasons to go to the pub. It's pretty much the only place in the UK where it's normal to strike up conversation with a stranger.