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The term "allowlist" isn't motivated by some apolitical desire for literal self-describing terminology. It's political activism; you want to effect change in s

The term "allowlist" isn't motivated by some apolitical desire for literal self-describing terminology. It's political activism; you want to effect change in society by changing language. I know it, you know it, everybody knows it. Pretending otherwise is tantamount to gaslighting. Nobody is agitating for 'string' to be replaced with 'character sequence'. It would be more descriptive, more literal, easier to understand than 'string' which usually means something completely different and not obviously related to character sequences at all. But nobody submitting passive aggressive drive-by PRs to public repos demanding that the word 'string' be stricken because isn't literal or self describing. Because nobody really cares about words being literal and self describing, that's a transparent post-hoc justification for what is fundamentally political activism.

carbadtraingood 4y ago
carbadtraingood 4y ago
Ok, I'll try again with a less cynical and more engaged response. > Nobody cares about words being literal and self describing I care about literal and self describing language, and I believe you are falling prey to the fundamental attribution error -- you believe there is a group of folks driving some agenda. I look at the suggestion no matter where it comes from and say, "oh hey, yeah, I think that is a good suggestion". It's not some grand conspiracy to "post hoc justify political activism". Someone just suggested a thing and many of us said, "oh yeah, that makes sense and is easy to change."
- Chris2048 4y ago
  Why cherry-pick whitelist and not re-invent English? Do you agree underwater-boat should replace "submarine"?
  - carbadtraingood 4y ago
    I don't use submarine in my daily work. But submarine is also not a metaphorical word, it's a literal one - sub (below) marine (the sea). One could argue that it's an insufficiently specific literal term, and that the word "vessel" should be added afterwards, I suppose. But it doesn't really matter because it's not the same error of form that Allowlist and whitelist have.
    - Chris2048 4y ago
      sub in this context means literally, physically below (or "inside" can also could for the sea, given in English this is the idiom) - but it can also mean small, lesser, or diminutive - it is far from unambiguous. Marine can mean the sea, but also things associated with the sea. Nearly all words are somewhat metaphorical, idiomatic - we just learn what those idioms are.
regularfry 4y ago
"String" is hideously ambiguous and yes, people do want to change it. Does it mean a null-terminated array of bytes? How about length-prefixed? Does it mean a list of code points with some arbitrary storage format the API shields you from? Some combination? If you haven't seen these conversations and want to ascribe some dark motivation you don't agree with to improving the basic operating conditions we're all working in that's not on me.
- Chris2048 4y ago
  > people do want to change it A significant number of people? Or a small minority that will never gain the traction of "allowlist" advocates?

carbadtraingood 4y ago

Ok, I'll try again with a less cynical and more engaged response. > Nobody cares about words being literal and self describing I care about literal and self describing language, and I believe you are falling prey to the fundamental attribution error -- you believe there is a group of folks driving some agenda. I look at the suggestion no matter where it comes from and say, "oh hey, yeah, I think that is a good suggestion". It's not some grand conspiracy to "post hoc justify political activism". Someone just suggested a thing and many of us said, "oh yeah, that makes sense and is easy to change."

Chris2048 4y ago
Why cherry-pick whitelist and not re-invent English? Do you agree underwater-boat should replace "submarine"?
- carbadtraingood 4y ago
  I don't use submarine in my daily work. But submarine is also not a metaphorical word, it's a literal one - sub (below) marine (the sea). One could argue that it's an insufficiently specific literal term, and that the word "vessel" should be added afterwards, I suppose. But it doesn't really matter because it's not the same error of form that Allowlist and whitelist have.
  - Chris2048 4y ago
    sub in this context means literally, physically below (or "inside" can also could for the sea, given in English this is the idiom) - but it can also mean small, lesser, or diminutive - it is far from unambiguous. Marine can mean the sea, but also things associated with the sea. Nearly all words are somewhat metaphorical, idiomatic - we just learn what those idioms are.

regularfry 4y ago

"String" is hideously ambiguous and yes, people do want to change it. Does it mean a null-terminated array of bytes? How about length-prefixed? Does it mean a list of code points with some arbitrary storage format the API shields you from? Some combination? If you haven't seen these conversations and want to ascribe some dark motivation you don't agree with to improving the basic operating conditions we're all working in that's not on me.

Chris2048 4y ago
> people do want to change it A significant number of people? Or a small minority that will never gain the traction of "allowlist" advocates?