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In Germany it just became law three days ago that if company allows to sign up to any service online, they also have to offer an easy-to-find way that allows to

In Germany it just became law three days ago that if company allows to sign up to any service online, they also have to offer an easy-to-find way that allows to cancel the service online. No more writing a letter, sending a fax or calling a phone to cancel a service or subscription that you signed up to online.

rusticpenn 4y ago
Damn, i should start canceling my tv contract…
tchalla 4y ago
Thanks. Can you post a link to the news?
- dewey 4y ago
  https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/suche/faire-verbrauchervertraege-1829172 https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/suche/faire-verbrauch...
  - loevborg 4y ago
    Also https://www.heise.de/news/Kuendigungsbutton-Vertraege-koennen-nun-per-Mausklick-beendet-werden-7159914.html https://www.heise.de/news/Kuendigungsbutton-Vertraege-koenne...
kybernetyk 4y ago
>No more writing a letter, sending a fax or calling a phone to cancel a service or subscription that you signed up to online. That's why I preferred Apple subscriptions to normal magazine subscriptions. Apple is a one click cancel. An old school subscription is writing a letter.
- throwaway12245 4y ago
  Writing a letter would be pretty easy.
  - jabiko 4y ago
    It depends. If you are in a office environment with access to all the materials needed then yes. But if not then in the worst case you have to find somewhere to print the letter, sign it, then find or buy an envelope and postage stamps, and finally drop the letter off.
    - tgsovlerkhgsel 4y ago
      I just realized that both you and me seem to have considered "print the letter" an absolute hard requirement, ignoring the fact that handwriting exists (and honestly, for a short letter like "Hereby I terminate my subscription, ID 12345, Name, Signature" it might actually be easier/faster).
      - thfuran 4y ago
        But then I'd have to find a pen.
      - davchana 4y ago
        The companies can alway deny that they received it unless you send certified, and even then companies need x number of days to process it.
  - tgsovlerkhgsel 4y ago
    It involves enough steps (write letter, print letter, obtain and pack envelope, obtain and attach postage, go to mailbox) that it discourages people. Each of those steps is also an opportunity to forget. Maybe I should get into the habit of hand-writing those. Probably less work than the digital variant to be honest (if you keep it short) and a lot more annoying for the receiving company deciphering that handwriting.
- corobo 4y ago
  A small bonus props to apple, it reminds you if you've got a subscription to an app when you delete it from your device
ClumsyPilot 4y ago
Am i the only one that feels we shouldn't need this law at all? I call a company, inform them I want to cancell, and they keep taking money off my card, they should be prosecuted for theft. I don't get to demand that all companies must use my custom online form when they need payment from me, so why should they get to make such demands? Why did our legal system enable this behaviour all.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 4y ago
  You always have the option to send a letter. You might also be able to do the phone call, technically, but good luck proving it. With both the call and an e-mail, they can claim that it could be spoofed too, so they "need" a signature (nevermind that there is nothing to check the signature against, the system works because most people aren't griefers cancelling other people's subscriptions). This law means they have to provide an online form. That's necessary because without the law, they simply have to do nothing to deny you the most convenient option to cancel.
- pvaldes 4y ago
  What it really happens is that they will refuse to cancel and will put you in a public defaulters list. And then your insurance will start billing more than double overnight, for example, until you surrender. Big companies always have leverage over small people. This is why the law was necessary.
- bombcar 4y ago
  > I don't get to demand that all companies must use my custom online form when they need payment from me, so why should they get to make such demands? Fun fact, companies literally do this to each other. You have to login to some weird SAP-based vendor portal to submit an invoice.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- jonas21 4y ago
  The point of the law is that you don't have to call. If you signed up online, you can cancel online, without talking to anyone. California has a similar law, and it's saved me a lot of time and stress over the last few years. By the way, you are free to demand that all companies use your custom online form when they need payment from you - as long as you get them to agree to it in advance. However, I doubt if many companies would do business with you unless you were paying them a lot of money.
odiroot 4y ago
It's especially important in Germany, where many services can (at least in pre-corona times) be only cancelled by snail mail or fax.
- nicbou 4y ago
  Yep. It's a big deal because of how common it was. In Germany, email is not considered as "in writing", and that's why so many things must still be sent by post. Most of the official bureaucracy is still done this way.

rusticpenn 4y ago

Damn, i should start canceling my tv contract…

tchalla 4y ago

Thanks. Can you post a link to the news?

dewey 4y ago
https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/suche/faire-verbrauchervertraege-1829172 https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/suche/faire-verbrauch...
- loevborg 4y ago
  Also https://www.heise.de/news/Kuendigungsbutton-Vertraege-koennen-nun-per-Mausklick-beendet-werden-7159914.html https://www.heise.de/news/Kuendigungsbutton-Vertraege-koenne...

kybernetyk 4y ago

>No more writing a letter, sending a fax or calling a phone to cancel a service or subscription that you signed up to online. That's why I preferred Apple subscriptions to normal magazine subscriptions. Apple is a one click cancel. An old school subscription is writing a letter.

throwaway12245 4y ago
Writing a letter would be pretty easy.
- jabiko 4y ago
  It depends. If you are in a office environment with access to all the materials needed then yes. But if not then in the worst case you have to find somewhere to print the letter, sign it, then find or buy an envelope and postage stamps, and finally drop the letter off.
  - tgsovlerkhgsel 4y ago
    I just realized that both you and me seem to have considered "print the letter" an absolute hard requirement, ignoring the fact that handwriting exists (and honestly, for a short letter like "Hereby I terminate my subscription, ID 12345, Name, Signature" it might actually be easier/faster).
    - thfuran 4y ago
      But then I'd have to find a pen.
    - davchana 4y ago
      The companies can alway deny that they received it unless you send certified, and even then companies need x number of days to process it.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 4y ago
  It involves enough steps (write letter, print letter, obtain and pack envelope, obtain and attach postage, go to mailbox) that it discourages people. Each of those steps is also an opportunity to forget. Maybe I should get into the habit of hand-writing those. Probably less work than the digital variant to be honest (if you keep it short) and a lot more annoying for the receiving company deciphering that handwriting.
corobo 4y ago
A small bonus props to apple, it reminds you if you've got a subscription to an app when you delete it from your device

ClumsyPilot 4y ago

Am i the only one that feels we shouldn't need this law at all? I call a company, inform them I want to cancell, and they keep taking money off my card, they should be prosecuted for theft. I don't get to demand that all companies must use my custom online form when they need payment from me, so why should they get to make such demands? Why did our legal system enable this behaviour all.

tgsovlerkhgsel 4y ago
You always have the option to send a letter. You might also be able to do the phone call, technically, but good luck proving it. With both the call and an e-mail, they can claim that it could be spoofed too, so they "need" a signature (nevermind that there is nothing to check the signature against, the system works because most people aren't griefers cancelling other people's subscriptions). This law means they have to provide an online form. That's necessary because without the law, they simply have to do nothing to deny you the most convenient option to cancel.
pvaldes 4y ago
What it really happens is that they will refuse to cancel and will put you in a public defaulters list. And then your insurance will start billing more than double overnight, for example, until you surrender. Big companies always have leverage over small people. This is why the law was necessary.
bombcar 4y ago
> I don't get to demand that all companies must use my custom online form when they need payment from me, so why should they get to make such demands? Fun fact, companies literally do this to each other. You have to login to some weird SAP-based vendor portal to submit an invoice.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
jonas21 4y ago
The point of the law is that you don't have to call. If you signed up online, you can cancel online, without talking to anyone. California has a similar law, and it's saved me a lot of time and stress over the last few years. By the way, you are free to demand that all companies use your custom online form when they need payment from you - as long as you get them to agree to it in advance. However, I doubt if many companies would do business with you unless you were paying them a lot of money.

odiroot 4y ago

It's especially important in Germany, where many services can (at least in pre-corona times) be only cancelled by snail mail or fax.

nicbou 4y ago
Yep. It's a big deal because of how common it was. In Germany, email is not considered as "in writing", and that's why so many things must still be sent by post. Most of the official bureaucracy is still done this way.