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Straw man argument. Or, you know, maybe highly specific to lazy, edge-case idiots. Autopilot and fsd still both specifically require an attentive driver. Resp

Straw man argument. Or, you know, maybe highly specific to lazy, edge-case idiots. Autopilot and fsd still both specifically require an attentive driver. Responsible adults who understand the systems will use them appropriately- and that might mean “not at all” in unusual/chaotic conditions. For the rest, there’s Darwin awards.

FireBeyond 4y ago
Your "straw man!" claims ignore that for every 'safety' related comment or action Tesla has done, they've had to be dragged kicking and screaming into it. First there was zero monitoring of attention. No steering wheel torque, nothing. Then when pushed and threatened they added it, and set the "hands on steering wheel" interval to "ONCE every fifteen MINUTES". Then they had to be threatened to reduce that to a sensible value. All the while, Tesla: "the driver is only in the seat for legal purpose - the car is driving itself", or "use Summon to bring your car to you while you deal with a fussy child". So you can call them lazy edge-case idiots all you like. But you can't pretend that Tesla hasn't absolutely fostered and nurtured this culture, because they have.
- electric_mayhem 4y ago
  I covered all that. Someone abandons common sense and abdicates responsibility for themselves in favor of believing the hype from a money-crazed billionaire? Prime candidates for Darwin awards, whether they own a tesla or not.
  - linspace 4y ago
    We are terrible at maintaining 100% concentration over extended periods of time while nothing is happening. People fall asleep driving. The mind starts to wander. We get distracted by our children. I don't think it's about believing the hype. It's about having a system put in place which encourages you to stop paying attention. I do think there have been great improvements in car safety thanks to AI. My car self brakes if it detects a pedestrian while I'm in reverse. It flashes lights in my side mirrors if another vehicle passes by. I think those systems are safety first and if you buy a car they are the responsibility of the car maker and not the buyer. I don't think you would expect people checking the airplane model when taking a flight. It's the responsibility of the airline and the manufacturer.
thomaskcr 4y ago
"People who believe the system they paid 10-12k for called 'full self driving' should be able to drive itself are idiots" is a pretty special class of Elon bootlicking. People who understand the system don't buy it because they realize it's a scam, everyone who bought it was duped. The most valuable thing at Tesla is the list of rubes they have.
- ncmncm 4y ago
  Many of whom are well equipped to know better.
deleted 4y ago
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FireBeyond 4y ago

Your "straw man!" claims ignore that for every 'safety' related comment or action Tesla has done, they've had to be dragged kicking and screaming into it. First there was zero monitoring of attention. No steering wheel torque, nothing. Then when pushed and threatened they added it, and set the "hands on steering wheel" interval to "ONCE every fifteen MINUTES". Then they had to be threatened to reduce that to a sensible value. All the while, Tesla: "the driver is only in the seat for legal purpose - the car is driving itself", or "use Summon to bring your car to you while you deal with a fussy child". So you can call them lazy edge-case idiots all you like. But you can't pretend that Tesla hasn't absolutely fostered and nurtured this culture, because they have.

electric_mayhem 4y ago
I covered all that. Someone abandons common sense and abdicates responsibility for themselves in favor of believing the hype from a money-crazed billionaire? Prime candidates for Darwin awards, whether they own a tesla or not.
- linspace 4y ago
  We are terrible at maintaining 100% concentration over extended periods of time while nothing is happening. People fall asleep driving. The mind starts to wander. We get distracted by our children. I don't think it's about believing the hype. It's about having a system put in place which encourages you to stop paying attention. I do think there have been great improvements in car safety thanks to AI. My car self brakes if it detects a pedestrian while I'm in reverse. It flashes lights in my side mirrors if another vehicle passes by. I think those systems are safety first and if you buy a car they are the responsibility of the car maker and not the buyer. I don't think you would expect people checking the airplane model when taking a flight. It's the responsibility of the airline and the manufacturer.

thomaskcr 4y ago

"People who believe the system they paid 10-12k for called 'full self driving' should be able to drive itself are idiots" is a pretty special class of Elon bootlicking. People who understand the system don't buy it because they realize it's a scam, everyone who bought it was duped. The most valuable thing at Tesla is the list of rubes they have.

ncmncm 4y ago
Many of whom are well equipped to know better.

deleted 4y ago

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