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I don't entirely disagree, but I have to keep in mind that this is an ad hominem argument. It's also an argument that would be used to eliminate or discredit ac

I don't entirely disagree, but I have to keep in mind that this is an ad hominem argument. It's also an argument that would be used to eliminate or discredit academia and the vast majority of those in public service - both of which I think have their place to an extent.

overgard 4y ago
Well, I'm not saying you should discredit advice from people who haven't made great works (IE, most of us), just that it's a question you need to ask to put their commentary in perspective. Especially when someone like Uncle Bob says: "The first rule of functions is that they should be small. The second rule of functions is that they should be smaller than that. This is not an assertion that I can justify. I can’t provide any references to research that shows that very small functions are better. What I can tell you is that for nearly four decades I have written functions of all different sizes." Well, alright, in that context he's asking us to just take his word for it, but there are no tangible arguments here. Whereas Casey Muratori has a much more thoughtful exploration of this topic ( https://caseymuratori.com/blog_0015 https://caseymuratori.com/blog_0015 ), and he's also written some very excellent code (in terms of solving difficult problems and doing useful things)
CipherThrowaway 4y ago
Ad hominem doesn't necessarily mean fallacious or invalid. Bob's whole brand is being a self-styled authority on what constitutes clean, high quality code. So yes, his achievements and personal credibility are important here.
angarg12 4y ago
Yes, some Talkers have great ideas, and some Doers offer terrible advice. I think a more nuanced mental framework that avoids ad-hominem is "opinions" vs "experiences". Some Talkers peddle opinions because they haven't got any experience. Most Doers peddle the experiences they had. Why does this matter? Anything can be opinion if it isn't backed by data. Many opinions that look great on paper are terrible in practice. If someone is offering you an experience (or anecdote), at least they have a single data point to back it up. A surprising amount of influence is exerted on the internet based on "one guy's opinion". The better Talkers aggregate experiences of others to back up their opinions. This tends to provide better evidence than a single anecdote, and can be done even if you have no hands on experience with the subject. So to your point a better way to frame it might be "what data/evidence is this person giving to support their argument?"
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overgard 4y ago

Well, I'm not saying you should discredit advice from people who haven't made great works (IE, most of us), just that it's a question you need to ask to put their commentary in perspective. Especially when someone like Uncle Bob says: "The first rule of functions is that they should be small. The second rule of functions is that they should be smaller than that. This is not an assertion that I can justify. I can’t provide any references to research that shows that very small functions are better. What I can tell you is that for nearly four decades I have written functions of all different sizes." Well, alright, in that context he's asking us to just take his word for it, but there are no tangible arguments here. Whereas Casey Muratori has a much more thoughtful exploration of this topic ( https://caseymuratori.com/blog_0015 https://caseymuratori.com/blog_0015 ), and he's also written some very excellent code (in terms of solving difficult problems and doing useful things)

CipherThrowaway 4y ago

Ad hominem doesn't necessarily mean fallacious or invalid. Bob's whole brand is being a self-styled authority on what constitutes clean, high quality code. So yes, his achievements and personal credibility are important here.

angarg12 4y ago

Yes, some Talkers have great ideas, and some Doers offer terrible advice. I think a more nuanced mental framework that avoids ad-hominem is "opinions" vs "experiences". Some Talkers peddle opinions because they haven't got any experience. Most Doers peddle the experiences they had. Why does this matter? Anything can be opinion if it isn't backed by data. Many opinions that look great on paper are terrible in practice. If someone is offering you an experience (or anecdote), at least they have a single data point to back it up. A surprising amount of influence is exerted on the internet based on "one guy's opinion". The better Talkers aggregate experiences of others to back up their opinions. This tends to provide better evidence than a single anecdote, and can be done even if you have no hands on experience with the subject. So to your point a better way to frame it might be "what data/evidence is this person giving to support their argument?"

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