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Not to derail this thread or to sound like I am criticizing OP, but everyone should take this post as a reminder to look into having a disability insurance poli

Not to derail this thread or to sound like I am criticizing OP, but everyone should take this post as a reminder to look into having a disability insurance policy. Your megacorp may offer a policy, but look into getting your own guaranteed renewable non-cancelable policy, as it provides greater protection. The Bogleheads wiki has a good page describing what is important to obtain in such a policy.

pragmatic 4y ago
Good point. Pro tip: get this while you are employed full time before you jump into self employment (at least look into it).
brianwawok 4y ago
It’s unclear to me that this case would be covered though? It’s not hard if you lose your legs or arms. Pain and related topics are likely excluded from your standard policy.
- berberous 4y ago
  I am not an expert on disability insurance, so I recommend everyone do their own research and speak to a disability insurance independent broker to get tailored advice, but if you have a "true own occupation" and "partial disability" coverage, then I think you would be covered, e.g. if you are a programmer that can no longer code more than half time due to carpal tunnel, I would think you could collect 50% disability even if you could work full time as a waiter. Of course, it's likely harder to prove such a claim, as the insurance companies look out for fraud. But if you have a clear and well-documented history, medical files, etc., I would think you should be eligible. Note that your megacorp group insurance policy is likely more limited, e.g. it may not have any coverage for partial disability. Happy to be corrected by those more knowledgeable.
  - brianwawok 4y ago
    Right, not an expert either. But you moved the goalpost a little. Carpal tunnel is a medical condition. You can take an xray and see inflamation and rule it. You can't really do that with pain or brainfog. There is no test "how real is this persons pain".
    - berberous 4y ago
      Again, not an expert, but I would guess that in a “good” comprehensive disability insurance policy, chronic pain or brain fog is not an excluded condition, per se. It may be much harder to get the insurance company to accept your claim, but that is an issue of proof, not contractual exclusion. I would also guess that a good attorney could help make your claim succeed, even if initially denied, if it can be shown through the totality of the circumstances, e.g. a long history of doctors appointments, pain pills, attempts and inability to keep working due to the pain, a decrease in normal life activities (e.g. you used to be an avid sportsman and have clearly ceased all those activities), etc. If you claim your pain is horrible but they catch you skiing on vacation in Italy, even if somehow that was during a lull in your pain, that’s probably going to not help your claim.
ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
I have a friend that was a doctor for over 25 years. Made great money, but ended up having a career-ending disability. He had been buying disability insurance, the whole time (he says it was pretty expensive). It ended up saving his ass. He makes more money from the disability insurance, and SSI (It is possible to get it, if you have doctors. Many lawyers also help -for a percentage), than many folks make, working.
thrwtllwy 4y ago
I am not in any way offended by this. I agree 100%. It was a mistake not to have disability insurance.
- encryptluks2 4y ago
  If it makes you feel any better, group disability insurance is notorious for being some of the scummiest insurers out there. Their whole thing is deny deny deny. You may have to file a federal lawsuit to try to just get the benefits you were owed and in the end with group disability and it could take just as long as SSDI.
eclipticplane 4y ago
Since we're on this topic: any notably good insurance companies that folks would recommend if we're talking privately purchased disability insurance?
- pram 4y ago
  Mine is through Principal, because it covers mental and nervous system issues too. It was the only one that did when I was looking. I'd also like to add that if you end up collecting, DI payments are TAX FREE. The second I found out this existed I got a policy asap lol
  - berberous 4y ago
    DI payments are tax free if you pay the premiums out of pocket. If the employer pays your premium through a group policy, the payments are taxable. At least that’s my understanding, anyone reading should confirm with a DI broker.
encryptluks2 4y ago
> disability insurance policy You know people on group disability policies can have to wait up to 18 months for disability while their disability insurance unreasonably denies their claim, and that the laws governing these plans don't actually allow you to collect damages but only the disability benefits you were actually owed in the first place? It might be better than SSDI, but not much.
xyzzy_plugh 4y ago
I wouldn't go so far as to recommend not getting disability insurance, but folks should know how much of a scam it is. I know of two folks personally, and many more folks second hand, who have battled to get disability insurance they are rightly owed. The insurance agencies will do everything they can to prove you are a fraud, like have private investigators tail you for weeks to collect photos of you doing things that people who are disabled obviously can't do. They'll go to your door to trick you into talking to them, they'll talk to your friends and family and colleagues and clients behind your back. They'll track your car. Both cases I know personally ended up giving up on collecting insurance due to the full-time nightmare it required. One even moved overseas to get the insurance company off their back years later.
sethammons 4y ago
This needs to be said more. Especially for the young, disability insurance is vastly more important than life insurance usually. When I got licensed, they quoted to us saying that "you are 8 times more likely to need disability insurance than life insurance (and you are guaranteed to die!)." This is due to something like 20-25% of people needing disability insurance during their working careers and most people dying during retirement with not a lot of bills left behind.

pragmatic 4y ago

Good point. Pro tip: get this while you are employed full time before you jump into self employment (at least look into it).

brianwawok 4y ago

It’s unclear to me that this case would be covered though? It’s not hard if you lose your legs or arms. Pain and related topics are likely excluded from your standard policy.

berberous 4y ago
I am not an expert on disability insurance, so I recommend everyone do their own research and speak to a disability insurance independent broker to get tailored advice, but if you have a "true own occupation" and "partial disability" coverage, then I think you would be covered, e.g. if you are a programmer that can no longer code more than half time due to carpal tunnel, I would think you could collect 50% disability even if you could work full time as a waiter. Of course, it's likely harder to prove such a claim, as the insurance companies look out for fraud. But if you have a clear and well-documented history, medical files, etc., I would think you should be eligible. Note that your megacorp group insurance policy is likely more limited, e.g. it may not have any coverage for partial disability. Happy to be corrected by those more knowledgeable.
- brianwawok 4y ago
  Right, not an expert either. But you moved the goalpost a little. Carpal tunnel is a medical condition. You can take an xray and see inflamation and rule it. You can't really do that with pain or brainfog. There is no test "how real is this persons pain".
  - berberous 4y ago
    Again, not an expert, but I would guess that in a “good” comprehensive disability insurance policy, chronic pain or brain fog is not an excluded condition, per se. It may be much harder to get the insurance company to accept your claim, but that is an issue of proof, not contractual exclusion. I would also guess that a good attorney could help make your claim succeed, even if initially denied, if it can be shown through the totality of the circumstances, e.g. a long history of doctors appointments, pain pills, attempts and inability to keep working due to the pain, a decrease in normal life activities (e.g. you used to be an avid sportsman and have clearly ceased all those activities), etc. If you claim your pain is horrible but they catch you skiing on vacation in Italy, even if somehow that was during a lull in your pain, that’s probably going to not help your claim.

ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago

I have a friend that was a doctor for over 25 years. Made great money, but ended up having a career-ending disability. He had been buying disability insurance, the whole time (he says it was pretty expensive). It ended up saving his ass. He makes more money from the disability insurance, and SSI (It is possible to get it, if you have doctors. Many lawyers also help -for a percentage), than many folks make, working.

thrwtllwy 4y ago

I am not in any way offended by this. I agree 100%. It was a mistake not to have disability insurance.

encryptluks2 4y ago
If it makes you feel any better, group disability insurance is notorious for being some of the scummiest insurers out there. Their whole thing is deny deny deny. You may have to file a federal lawsuit to try to just get the benefits you were owed and in the end with group disability and it could take just as long as SSDI.

eclipticplane 4y ago

Since we're on this topic: any notably good insurance companies that folks would recommend if we're talking privately purchased disability insurance?

pram 4y ago
Mine is through Principal, because it covers mental and nervous system issues too. It was the only one that did when I was looking. I'd also like to add that if you end up collecting, DI payments are TAX FREE. The second I found out this existed I got a policy asap lol
- berberous 4y ago
  DI payments are tax free if you pay the premiums out of pocket. If the employer pays your premium through a group policy, the payments are taxable. At least that’s my understanding, anyone reading should confirm with a DI broker.

encryptluks2 4y ago

> disability insurance policy You know people on group disability policies can have to wait up to 18 months for disability while their disability insurance unreasonably denies their claim, and that the laws governing these plans don't actually allow you to collect damages but only the disability benefits you were actually owed in the first place? It might be better than SSDI, but not much.

xyzzy_plugh 4y ago

I wouldn't go so far as to recommend not getting disability insurance, but folks should know how much of a scam it is. I know of two folks personally, and many more folks second hand, who have battled to get disability insurance they are rightly owed. The insurance agencies will do everything they can to prove you are a fraud, like have private investigators tail you for weeks to collect photos of you doing things that people who are disabled obviously can't do. They'll go to your door to trick you into talking to them, they'll talk to your friends and family and colleagues and clients behind your back. They'll track your car. Both cases I know personally ended up giving up on collecting insurance due to the full-time nightmare it required. One even moved overseas to get the insurance company off their back years later.

sethammons 4y ago

This needs to be said more. Especially for the young, disability insurance is vastly more important than life insurance usually. When I got licensed, they quoted to us saying that "you are 8 times more likely to need disability insurance than life insurance (and you are guaranteed to die!)." This is due to something like 20-25% of people needing disability insurance during their working careers and most people dying during retirement with not a lot of bills left behind.