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>Today we have a somewhat unreasonable expectation that at least one, but sometimes several browsers, office suites, multimedia viewers and editors to be a "bas

>Today we have a somewhat unreasonable expectation that at least one, but sometimes several browsers, office suites, multimedia viewers and editors to be a "basic desktop". Why is this considered unreasonable? I agree that is was unreasonable back in the 90s, 30 years ago, but we also now expect computers to come with a few TB of storage rather than a few GB -- times have changed.

ElectricalUnion 4y ago
I reasonably agree with your assertion that times have changed; several of the optimizations we come to expect from compilers/JIT trade faster execution for more space as such tradeoff is often very worth it. However if you agree with the proposition of attempting to supply a reasonably "lean core" with extensions, if said lean core is too opinionated, you will, soon or later, either have to adapt your workflow, or workaround said lean core. I think a somewhat similar thing applies to silverblue ( https://silverblue.fedoraproject.org/ https://silverblue.fedoraproject.org/ ) and it's very hard to actually use it as intended (only using things inside flatpak/toolbx), without messing with the overlay system. I very often feel the need to replace half of the "provided" applications, and as such it would be in fact better if they were not supplied in the first place.
- passthejoe 4y ago
  It is possible to remove things from the stock image. I haven't done it yet, but most common is to remove default Firefox and use Flatpak FF.
vbezhenar 4y ago
> we also now expect computers to come with a few TB of storage No, we don't. Modern Macbook which is overpriced elite computer sells with 256GB storage. There're plenty of laptops selling with 120GB storage. I'd argue that since we migrated from HDD to SSD, we expect computers to come with less storage than before. I had 200GB HDD in like 2005 or something like this.
- ziddoap 4y ago
  My point was that expectations have changed over time... You can get as pedantic as you want over the exact sizes, but someone buying a computer today expects more storage than someone who was buying a computer in the early 90s.
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  > Modern Macbook which is overpriced elite computer sells with 256GB storage its just that our industry is a joke, imagine they'd sell cars with three wheels and carge you extra for the 4th.
  - ElectricalUnion 4y ago
    The joke is that you can't even buy the 4th wheel later as a add-on, you need to replace your entire car instead.
- ElectricalUnion 4y ago
  > Modern Macbook which is overpriced elite computer If you bough a overpriced elite computer, and potentially other parts of that ecosystem of products, why would you not pay for overpriced elite cloud storage as well? That is very reasonable thinking from Apple.

ElectricalUnion 4y ago

I reasonably agree with your assertion that times have changed; several of the optimizations we come to expect from compilers/JIT trade faster execution for more space as such tradeoff is often very worth it. However if you agree with the proposition of attempting to supply a reasonably "lean core" with extensions, if said lean core is too opinionated, you will, soon or later, either have to adapt your workflow, or workaround said lean core. I think a somewhat similar thing applies to silverblue ( https://silverblue.fedoraproject.org/ https://silverblue.fedoraproject.org/ ) and it's very hard to actually use it as intended (only using things inside flatpak/toolbx), without messing with the overlay system. I very often feel the need to replace half of the "provided" applications, and as such it would be in fact better if they were not supplied in the first place.

passthejoe 4y ago
It is possible to remove things from the stock image. I haven't done it yet, but most common is to remove default Firefox and use Flatpak FF.

vbezhenar 4y ago

> we also now expect computers to come with a few TB of storage No, we don't. Modern Macbook which is overpriced elite computer sells with 256GB storage. There're plenty of laptops selling with 120GB storage. I'd argue that since we migrated from HDD to SSD, we expect computers to come with less storage than before. I had 200GB HDD in like 2005 or something like this.

ziddoap 4y ago
My point was that expectations have changed over time... You can get as pedantic as you want over the exact sizes, but someone buying a computer today expects more storage than someone who was buying a computer in the early 90s.
ClumsyPilot 4y ago
> Modern Macbook which is overpriced elite computer sells with 256GB storage its just that our industry is a joke, imagine they'd sell cars with three wheels and carge you extra for the 4th.
- ElectricalUnion 4y ago
  The joke is that you can't even buy the 4th wheel later as a add-on, you need to replace your entire car instead.
ElectricalUnion 4y ago
> Modern Macbook which is overpriced elite computer If you bough a overpriced elite computer, and potentially other parts of that ecosystem of products, why would you not pay for overpriced elite cloud storage as well? That is very reasonable thinking from Apple.