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> full Linux desktop > The Core Project is a highly modular based system (...) It is not a complete desktop nor is all hardware completely supported. It repres

> full Linux desktop > The Core Project is a highly modular based system (...) It is not a complete desktop nor is all hardware completely supported. It represents only the core needed to boot into a very minimal X desktop typically with wired internet access. That is not a full desktop, and the [The Core] project doesn't say it is. That being said the concept of "full desktop" is somewhat loaded. Today we have a somewhat unreasonable expectation that at least one, but sometimes several browsers, office suites, multimedia viewers and editors to be a "basic desktop". Back in the 90's people did not expect the computer to come with any such software applications built-in.

em3rgent0rdr 4y ago
You can install web browsers including chromium-browser and firefox via the package manager. List of packages: http://www.tinycorelinux.net/13.x/x86_64/tcz/ http://www.tinycorelinux.net/13.x/x86_64/tcz/
ziddoap 4y ago
>Today we have a somewhat unreasonable expectation that at least one, but sometimes several browsers, office suites, multimedia viewers and editors to be a "basic desktop". Why is this considered unreasonable? I agree that is was unreasonable back in the 90s, 30 years ago, but we also now expect computers to come with a few TB of storage rather than a few GB -- times have changed.
- ElectricalUnion 4y ago
  I reasonably agree with your assertion that times have changed; several of the optimizations we come to expect from compilers/JIT trade faster execution for more space as such tradeoff is often very worth it. However if you agree with the proposition of attempting to supply a reasonably "lean core" with extensions, if said lean core is too opinionated, you will, soon or later, either have to adapt your workflow, or workaround said lean core. I think a somewhat similar thing applies to silverblue ( https://silverblue.fedoraproject.org/ https://silverblue.fedoraproject.org/ ) and it's very hard to actually use it as intended (only using things inside flatpak/toolbx), without messing with the overlay system. I very often feel the need to replace half of the "provided" applications, and as such it would be in fact better if they were not supplied in the first place.
  - passthejoe 4y ago
    It is possible to remove things from the stock image. I haven't done it yet, but most common is to remove default Firefox and use Flatpak FF.
- vbezhenar 4y ago
  > we also now expect computers to come with a few TB of storage No, we don't. Modern Macbook which is overpriced elite computer sells with 256GB storage. There're plenty of laptops selling with 120GB storage. I'd argue that since we migrated from HDD to SSD, we expect computers to come with less storage than before. I had 200GB HDD in like 2005 or something like this.
  - ziddoap 4y ago
    My point was that expectations have changed over time... You can get as pedantic as you want over the exact sizes, but someone buying a computer today expects more storage than someone who was buying a computer in the early 90s.
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    > Modern Macbook which is overpriced elite computer sells with 256GB storage its just that our industry is a joke, imagine they'd sell cars with three wheels and carge you extra for the 4th.
    - ElectricalUnion 4y ago
      The joke is that you can't even buy the 4th wheel later as a add-on, you need to replace your entire car instead.
  - ElectricalUnion 4y ago
    > Modern Macbook which is overpriced elite computer If you bough a overpriced elite computer, and potentially other parts of that ecosystem of products, why would you not pay for overpriced elite cloud storage as well? That is very reasonable thinking from Apple.
spaniard89277 4y ago
The problem with this tiny projects is that you need a web browser. And good luck browsing the web in old PCs. You can use Lynx and the like, but you know what I mean. If you need second life for an old pc, It may be better to repurpose as server or something like that.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- ElectricalUnion 4y ago
  > And good luck browsing the web in old PCs. You can use Lynx and the like, but you know what I mean. Hello electron where everything is a browser :) Yes, even if your system is lean doesn't mean a lot if the application you're using on top still needs a lot of TFLOPs and GBs of fast RAM. Trying to use a 2GB 2 thread atom netbook here as a dumb terminal of sorts for other systems - a pain for anything that is not very basic limited remote shell. The closest I got to a "working system with browser" was cheating using mosh + browsh on another computer.
  - whitten 4y ago
    Have you tried any of the VNC class of programs? It allows a virtual screen solution to other computers, even servers. Effectively a private Zoom session.
    - usr1106 4y ago
      Worked already smoothly around 2000 over 33.6 kbit/s modem. And lossless compression! I often have to think of that when we share terminals over Google Meet these days and it takes tens of seconds until the encoding artifacts of red fonts have faded away so text becomes reable again. 100 times more bandwidth for a worse experience, that must be progress...
    - mappu 4y ago
      > Effectively a private Zoom session. I just wanted to let you know that this comparison absolutely threw me. Of course you're right, they both let you "screen share" but the way you applied a 2022 metaphor to explain 90s tech made me feel a little weird and old. I guess nano is kind of like a private google docs.
usrn 4y ago
Yup. Alpine's rootfs is tiny (~3mb) and if you don't need firmware you would probably have a desktop image around this size.
- SahAssar 4y ago
  Alpines rootfs images don't include the kernel or any drivers at all, right? Since it's usually run within a container that's a sensible choice, but if you look at https://www.alpinelinux.org/downloads/ https://www.alpinelinux.org/downloads/ their rootfs is 2.6mb, but even their slimmed down version meant to run only on virtualized machines is 52mb, and their standard or netboot versions (which actually include the stuff needed to boot on actual hardware) are over 150mb.
  - stepupmakeup 4y ago
    Even the "virt" Alpine image is unable to successfully install without pulling in extra packges from the internet. setup-alpine fails at the disk step, depends on syslinux and sfdisk.
agumonkey 4y ago
maybe you're thinking about full desktop environment ?
johnchristopher 4y ago
I expect a full desktop to manage mounting of USB devices for me. My awesome-wm setup doesn't do that :(. (And I know it's on me)
taf2 4y ago
I don’t know… now days I think if I can run a browser that pretty much is a full desktop…
- HPsquared 4y ago
  How much of the browser can it run though? Probably won't be capable of audio/video, for instance.
  - soylentgraham 4y ago
    Oh that would be bliss! Can it remove cookie/newsletter/discount/app promo popups too? :)
    - eastbound 4y ago
      Reading this, I’m wondering why we settled on those particular questions, as a civilization. The civilization next door must have a slew of “What is your address?” / “Record your voice!” / “Scream ‘NETFLIX’ to the street” / “Upload your fingerprint to get access to our free content” dialogs.
    - a9h74j 4y ago
      Extreme view: The user agent needs to be "shrunk down and drowned in a bathtub".
      - moffkalast 4y ago
        Wouldn't it be easier to simply build a larger bathtub?
regularfry 4y ago
> Back in the 90's people did not expect the computer to come with any such software applications built-in. Having a complete set of mutually compatible applications is literally why Linux distributions exist.
- iaaan 4y ago
  The Stallman copypasta kind of explains this verbatim: > I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're refering to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX. > Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called Linux, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project. > There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called Linux distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux!
  - regularfry 4y ago
    That's not actually what I was thinking of, but it's related. I was thinking more of the hard work of making sure you have a compatible set of library versions that every app in the repositories can link against, with whatever patches they need to make that work, to provide a complete working system for the user - including end user apps like mail clients, browsers, editors, the whole shebang.
1vuio0pswjnm7 4y ago
Desktop, as in desktop computer, used to mean a particular form factor, namely one that sits on a desk. If "desktop" is used to mean a GUI resembling a real world desktop then, according to the dictionary definition, it only means the layout, colors, icons, etc., i.e., the GUI, not the applications that may be installed or pre-installed on the computer. Even in the real world, desktop means the top of a desk not what is placed there. A "full" desktop, as in "disk full", could mean a desktop that has so many items on it that there is no space for anything else.

em3rgent0rdr 4y ago

You can install web browsers including chromium-browser and firefox via the package manager. List of packages: http://www.tinycorelinux.net/13.x/x86_64/tcz/ http://www.tinycorelinux.net/13.x/x86_64/tcz/

ziddoap 4y ago

>Today we have a somewhat unreasonable expectation that at least one, but sometimes several browsers, office suites, multimedia viewers and editors to be a "basic desktop". Why is this considered unreasonable? I agree that is was unreasonable back in the 90s, 30 years ago, but we also now expect computers to come with a few TB of storage rather than a few GB -- times have changed.

ElectricalUnion 4y ago
I reasonably agree with your assertion that times have changed; several of the optimizations we come to expect from compilers/JIT trade faster execution for more space as such tradeoff is often very worth it. However if you agree with the proposition of attempting to supply a reasonably "lean core" with extensions, if said lean core is too opinionated, you will, soon or later, either have to adapt your workflow, or workaround said lean core. I think a somewhat similar thing applies to silverblue ( https://silverblue.fedoraproject.org/ https://silverblue.fedoraproject.org/ ) and it's very hard to actually use it as intended (only using things inside flatpak/toolbx), without messing with the overlay system. I very often feel the need to replace half of the "provided" applications, and as such it would be in fact better if they were not supplied in the first place.
- passthejoe 4y ago
  It is possible to remove things from the stock image. I haven't done it yet, but most common is to remove default Firefox and use Flatpak FF.
vbezhenar 4y ago
> we also now expect computers to come with a few TB of storage No, we don't. Modern Macbook which is overpriced elite computer sells with 256GB storage. There're plenty of laptops selling with 120GB storage. I'd argue that since we migrated from HDD to SSD, we expect computers to come with less storage than before. I had 200GB HDD in like 2005 or something like this.
- ziddoap 4y ago
  My point was that expectations have changed over time... You can get as pedantic as you want over the exact sizes, but someone buying a computer today expects more storage than someone who was buying a computer in the early 90s.
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  > Modern Macbook which is overpriced elite computer sells with 256GB storage its just that our industry is a joke, imagine they'd sell cars with three wheels and carge you extra for the 4th.
  - ElectricalUnion 4y ago
    The joke is that you can't even buy the 4th wheel later as a add-on, you need to replace your entire car instead.
- ElectricalUnion 4y ago
  > Modern Macbook which is overpriced elite computer If you bough a overpriced elite computer, and potentially other parts of that ecosystem of products, why would you not pay for overpriced elite cloud storage as well? That is very reasonable thinking from Apple.

spaniard89277 4y ago

The problem with this tiny projects is that you need a web browser. And good luck browsing the web in old PCs. You can use Lynx and the like, but you know what I mean. If you need second life for an old pc, It may be better to repurpose as server or something like that.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
ElectricalUnion 4y ago
> And good luck browsing the web in old PCs. You can use Lynx and the like, but you know what I mean. Hello electron where everything is a browser :) Yes, even if your system is lean doesn't mean a lot if the application you're using on top still needs a lot of TFLOPs and GBs of fast RAM. Trying to use a 2GB 2 thread atom netbook here as a dumb terminal of sorts for other systems - a pain for anything that is not very basic limited remote shell. The closest I got to a "working system with browser" was cheating using mosh + browsh on another computer.
- whitten 4y ago
  Have you tried any of the VNC class of programs? It allows a virtual screen solution to other computers, even servers. Effectively a private Zoom session.
  - usr1106 4y ago
    Worked already smoothly around 2000 over 33.6 kbit/s modem. And lossless compression! I often have to think of that when we share terminals over Google Meet these days and it takes tens of seconds until the encoding artifacts of red fonts have faded away so text becomes reable again. 100 times more bandwidth for a worse experience, that must be progress...
  - mappu 4y ago
    > Effectively a private Zoom session. I just wanted to let you know that this comparison absolutely threw me. Of course you're right, they both let you "screen share" but the way you applied a 2022 metaphor to explain 90s tech made me feel a little weird and old. I guess nano is kind of like a private google docs.

usrn 4y ago

Yup. Alpine's rootfs is tiny (~3mb) and if you don't need firmware you would probably have a desktop image around this size.

SahAssar 4y ago
Alpines rootfs images don't include the kernel or any drivers at all, right? Since it's usually run within a container that's a sensible choice, but if you look at https://www.alpinelinux.org/downloads/ https://www.alpinelinux.org/downloads/ their rootfs is 2.6mb, but even their slimmed down version meant to run only on virtualized machines is 52mb, and their standard or netboot versions (which actually include the stuff needed to boot on actual hardware) are over 150mb.
- stepupmakeup 4y ago
  Even the "virt" Alpine image is unable to successfully install without pulling in extra packges from the internet. setup-alpine fails at the disk step, depends on syslinux and sfdisk.

agumonkey 4y ago

maybe you're thinking about full desktop environment ?

johnchristopher 4y ago

I expect a full desktop to manage mounting of USB devices for me. My awesome-wm setup doesn't do that :(. (And I know it's on me)

taf2 4y ago

I don’t know… now days I think if I can run a browser that pretty much is a full desktop…

HPsquared 4y ago
How much of the browser can it run though? Probably won't be capable of audio/video, for instance.
- soylentgraham 4y ago
  Oh that would be bliss! Can it remove cookie/newsletter/discount/app promo popups too? :)
  - eastbound 4y ago
    Reading this, I’m wondering why we settled on those particular questions, as a civilization. The civilization next door must have a slew of “What is your address?” / “Record your voice!” / “Scream ‘NETFLIX’ to the street” / “Upload your fingerprint to get access to our free content” dialogs.
  - a9h74j 4y ago
    Extreme view: The user agent needs to be "shrunk down and drowned in a bathtub".
    - moffkalast 4y ago
      Wouldn't it be easier to simply build a larger bathtub?

regularfry 4y ago

> Back in the 90's people did not expect the computer to come with any such software applications built-in. Having a complete set of mutually compatible applications is literally why Linux distributions exist.

iaaan 4y ago
The Stallman copypasta kind of explains this verbatim: > I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're refering to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX. > Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called Linux, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project. > There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called Linux distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux!
- regularfry 4y ago
  That's not actually what I was thinking of, but it's related. I was thinking more of the hard work of making sure you have a compatible set of library versions that every app in the repositories can link against, with whatever patches they need to make that work, to provide a complete working system for the user - including end user apps like mail clients, browsers, editors, the whole shebang.

1vuio0pswjnm7 4y ago

Desktop, as in desktop computer, used to mean a particular form factor, namely one that sits on a desk. If "desktop" is used to mean a GUI resembling a real world desktop then, according to the dictionary definition, it only means the layout, colors, icons, etc., i.e., the GUI, not the applications that may be installed or pre-installed on the computer. Even in the real world, desktop means the top of a desk not what is placed there. A "full" desktop, as in "disk full", could mean a desktop that has so many items on it that there is no space for anything else.