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I can’t imagine there is a way to get a refund, but if I could I would. 10k on something they won’t even let me beta test because where I live triggers incorrec

I can’t imagine there is a way to get a refund, but if I could I would. 10k on something they won’t even let me beta test because where I live triggers incorrect forward collision warnings too frequently for my driving to be considered good enough. I was skeptical but paid up front, and I’m pretty sure I got taken

cm2187 4y ago
Rome?
- LtWorf 4y ago
  Once in rome I saw a car parked, a car crashed into it for some reason, and the driver just left the car in the middle of the road, crashed into another car. I do have a photo of that somewhere.
  - mnd999 4y ago
    That’s just normal parking.
- MarkMarine 4y ago
  Marin, CA
AshamedCaptain 4y ago
> they won’t even let me beta test because where I live triggers incorrect forward collision warnings too frequently for my driving to be considered good enough WTF. And I guess they will still compare "Autopilot" accidents with your average driver's, when they are literally combing (supervisor) drivers for their skill?
- alephxyz 4y ago
  Combing drivers for their skill and their driving routes for how easy it would be for FSD to drive through.
- MarkMarine 4y ago
  It’s their crap tech that can’t tell an overhead bridge from a real obstacle.
ncmncm 4y ago
Sue, I guess. Seems like they would settle quickly because fighting tens of thousands of lawsuits would look bad. And, maybe anyway cost more than settling.
- yreg 4y ago
  That's why they hired the 'hard core street fighter litigation team'…
  - klyrs 4y ago
    But he promised to use them only for good, not for evil! (I may have just strained my eye-rolling muscle)
- tintor 4y ago
  Unless Tesla owners agreed to Forced Arbitration with Tesla, when buying their vehicle.
  - amluto 4y ago
    IANAL, but I expect that the killer lawsuit will come from the estate of someone killed by a Tesla who doesn’t own a Tesla. No contract = no arbitration or much leeway for Tesla to claim that the driver should have known better.
    - salawat 4y ago
      The fact the arbitration is even a short circuit for the courts is absolutely ludicrous.
    - ncmncm 4y ago
      That probably will not get this unhappy customer his "FSD" fee back.
      - amluto 4y ago
        No, but a $5bn personal injury case might actually get Tesla’s attention. I’m not at all familiar with the relevant law, but I imagine the FTC could sue to force a refund of the FSD charges.
jaxn 4y ago
You need to set your forward collision warnings to 'early'. The safety score ding happens at medium. If you have it set to 'late', you will get dinged and never even know it until later.
- t0mas88 4y ago
  "You need" to buy a different car.
- MarkMarine 4y ago
  I’ve got a baby in the car, the noise of the alert wakes him up. It’s for a bridge at the top of a hill on my way home, triggers every time. It’s not valid
matthewdgreen 4y ago
I don’t think the “safety score” has much to do with safety. I suspect it’s a way to ensure that only the most obsessed/devoted fans will get access to the beta, since there seems to be no way to get a high enough score through normal driving in a populated area. You basically have to be willing to devote a ton of time to “gaming” your score, rather than just driving places.
- salawat 4y ago
  Which skews your dataset. People are getting trained to operate Autopilot rather than generally drive safe. Procrustean bed, hooooo!
- enragedcacti 4y ago
  Yup. The simplicity of the system, combined with the fact that the method of calculating the score is publicly available, means that it encourages drivers (in some circumstances) to drive less safely. It also doesn't include rapid acceleration or speeding despite those being pretty good predictors of purposeful unsafe driving, probably because those are part of the reason you buy a Tesla in the first place. Beyond that, the way it is calculated makes it less of a safety score and more of a risk score; it can't distinguish between a person driving effectively in a risky environment (safe) and a person creating a risky environment (unsafe). Some portion of the testers are then people who actively avoid safe defensive driving techniques in risky environments to maintain their safety score. That type of person is the absolute last person you want testing an autonomous system. This video is a great overview of FSD beta safety, I've linked to the section specifically about the safety score: https://youtu.be/sHyOL_vDQMQ?t=801 https://youtu.be/sHyOL_vDQMQ?t=801
amluto 4y ago
It’s plausible that the goal isn’t to select for safety at all — the goal could be to select for drivers for whom, for whatever reason, FSD has a chance of actually working.
toast0 4y ago
Talk to a lemon law attorney. If your car doesn't do what it's supposed to do, it might be a lemon, or at least lemon adjacent enough to be handled by such an attorney. Don't fight with Tesla on Twitter.

cm2187 4y ago

Rome?

LtWorf 4y ago
Once in rome I saw a car parked, a car crashed into it for some reason, and the driver just left the car in the middle of the road, crashed into another car. I do have a photo of that somewhere.
- mnd999 4y ago
  That’s just normal parking.
MarkMarine 4y ago
Marin, CA

AshamedCaptain 4y ago

> they won’t even let me beta test because where I live triggers incorrect forward collision warnings too frequently for my driving to be considered good enough WTF. And I guess they will still compare "Autopilot" accidents with your average driver's, when they are literally combing (supervisor) drivers for their skill?

alephxyz 4y ago
Combing drivers for their skill and their driving routes for how easy it would be for FSD to drive through.
MarkMarine 4y ago
It’s their crap tech that can’t tell an overhead bridge from a real obstacle.

ncmncm 4y ago

Sue, I guess. Seems like they would settle quickly because fighting tens of thousands of lawsuits would look bad. And, maybe anyway cost more than settling.

yreg 4y ago
That's why they hired the 'hard core street fighter litigation team'…
- klyrs 4y ago
  But he promised to use them only for good, not for evil! (I may have just strained my eye-rolling muscle)
tintor 4y ago
Unless Tesla owners agreed to Forced Arbitration with Tesla, when buying their vehicle.
- amluto 4y ago
  IANAL, but I expect that the killer lawsuit will come from the estate of someone killed by a Tesla who doesn’t own a Tesla. No contract = no arbitration or much leeway for Tesla to claim that the driver should have known better.
  - salawat 4y ago
    The fact the arbitration is even a short circuit for the courts is absolutely ludicrous.
  - ncmncm 4y ago
    That probably will not get this unhappy customer his "FSD" fee back.
    - amluto 4y ago
      No, but a $5bn personal injury case might actually get Tesla’s attention. I’m not at all familiar with the relevant law, but I imagine the FTC could sue to force a refund of the FSD charges.

jaxn 4y ago

You need to set your forward collision warnings to 'early'. The safety score ding happens at medium. If you have it set to 'late', you will get dinged and never even know it until later.

t0mas88 4y ago
"You need" to buy a different car.
MarkMarine 4y ago
I’ve got a baby in the car, the noise of the alert wakes him up. It’s for a bridge at the top of a hill on my way home, triggers every time. It’s not valid

matthewdgreen 4y ago

I don’t think the “safety score” has much to do with safety. I suspect it’s a way to ensure that only the most obsessed/devoted fans will get access to the beta, since there seems to be no way to get a high enough score through normal driving in a populated area. You basically have to be willing to devote a ton of time to “gaming” your score, rather than just driving places.

salawat 4y ago
Which skews your dataset. People are getting trained to operate Autopilot rather than generally drive safe. Procrustean bed, hooooo!
enragedcacti 4y ago
Yup. The simplicity of the system, combined with the fact that the method of calculating the score is publicly available, means that it encourages drivers (in some circumstances) to drive less safely. It also doesn't include rapid acceleration or speeding despite those being pretty good predictors of purposeful unsafe driving, probably because those are part of the reason you buy a Tesla in the first place. Beyond that, the way it is calculated makes it less of a safety score and more of a risk score; it can't distinguish between a person driving effectively in a risky environment (safe) and a person creating a risky environment (unsafe). Some portion of the testers are then people who actively avoid safe defensive driving techniques in risky environments to maintain their safety score. That type of person is the absolute last person you want testing an autonomous system. This video is a great overview of FSD beta safety, I've linked to the section specifically about the safety score: https://youtu.be/sHyOL_vDQMQ?t=801 https://youtu.be/sHyOL_vDQMQ?t=801

amluto 4y ago

It’s plausible that the goal isn’t to select for safety at all — the goal could be to select for drivers for whom, for whatever reason, FSD has a chance of actually working.

toast0 4y ago

Talk to a lemon law attorney. If your car doesn't do what it's supposed to do, it might be a lemon, or at least lemon adjacent enough to be handled by such an attorney. Don't fight with Tesla on Twitter.