3 ms·

> Why are you bringing up religion? Because that's "What many people believe" https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/11/27/views-of-transgender-issues-divi

> Why are you bringing up religion? Because that's "What many people believe" https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/11/27/views-of-transgender-issues-divide-along-religious-lines/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/11/27/views-of-tr... > I should have been more complete in my wording. Then i am sorry if i over reacted, just leaving out the non binary part would have fixed it. > Here is the poll https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2022/06/28/americans-complex-views-on-gender-identity-and-transgender-issues/ https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2022/06/28/america... I suggest you have a look at the section: "Many say it’s important to use someone’s new name, pronouns when they’ve gone through a gender transition" where there is a strong majority for calling trans people by their pronoun. Just summarizing that entire survey by one of its stats seems dishonest. It is complicated in the US. > Also, like I said above one of them lives in America which is why the US is important. Does Elliot actually live in the US though? I could find mo source for this. He sold his LA mansion. I could find a blog spammy website which claims Hammersmith, London, United Kingdom and many articles where he claims he was in Canada during the pandemic and also about him last being seen in Toronto. I do not see how this relevant though since: > Which legal system would take it? The one where the alleged victim lives or the one where the alleged attacker lives? I suspect any lawyer on behalf of Mr. Page would sue in the legal system where they have the best chance. As far as i know he is still a Canadian. > Had no clue you are telepathic and can determine people's motives. Surely it could just be that they literally do not believe something is true so they don't say it? Please try to engage in good faith. > He does not actually oppose using people's preferred pronouns in general. I never claimed he was. That would be retarded position to take. That is not what i think larger (Canadian) society has a problem with. You are basically repeating his claim about he aims to do. I have both his recent books and learned about him through his video about Bill C16 YouTube recommended to me, watched two different recordings of lectures on maps of meaning. I followed him a lot before he vanished from the face of the earth. I do not think he really recovered from his illness. Let me tell you how i see him now. He is a person who plausibly (although less plausibly so after this incident) says he means no harm to trans people and would treat trans persons he knows with respect. What the left takes issue with is his political activism to limit and walk back protection of trans people from hate. The results from his activism be would permission to harass trans people as a group by trying to deny them the status of a protected group. This is the content of Bill C 16. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Act_to_amend_the_Canadian_Human_Rights_Act_and_the_Criminal_Code https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Act_to_amend_the_Canadian_H... I recommend to read that article assuming Jordan B Peterson might be dishonest or misguided about his intentions and then reflect. > I am not suggesting that trans people not wanted to be called their previous gender is controversial? You literally were and you choose not to reply to the part where i go through what you wrote and show that this is how i only could interpret it. Moving on. Now that we established that it is not what you disagreed with, what part of my argument exactly did you disagree with? With regard to what society did you disagree with it?

_-david-_ 4y ago
>Because that's "What many people believe" Maybe you should look again? 37% of non religious people disagree with trans. You are discounting the opinions held by millions of people because it doesn't fit your narrative. >I suggest you have a look at the section: Unfortunately the heading disagreed with the title of the chart so I wasn't sure if pronouns were actually included or just name. Most people who disagree with the concept of trans are fine with name changes since name changes are something they find acceptable. >Does Elliot actually live in the US though? I could find mo source for this. He sold his LA mansion. I could find a blog spammy website which claims Hammersmith, London, United Kingdom and many articles where he claims he was in Canada during the pandemic and also about him last being seen in Toronto. I do not see how this relevant though since: I am not sure as well. > I suspect any lawyer on behalf of Mr. Page would sue in the legal system where they have the best chance. As far as i know he is still a Canadian. I am not sure if Page would have standing? If a crime takes place across a border can it be enforced in another country? I guess it depends on where Page is living. >Please try to engage in good faith. You are the one claiming you were going to steel man and yet you didn't. > I never claimed he was. That would be retarded position to take. That is not what i think larger (Canadian) society has a problem with. You are basically repeating his claim about he aims to do. Correct. I don't believe in assuming people are lying when they clearly and explicitly say something. > Let me tell you how i see him now. He is a person who plausibly (although less plausibly so after this incident) says he means no harm to trans people and would treat trans persons he knows with respect. I assume you believe using the non preferred pronouns causes harm? >What the left takes issue with is his political activism to limit and walk back protection of trans people from hate. The results from his activism be would permission to harass trans people as a group by trying to deny them the status of a protected group. This is the content of Bill C 16. I agree this is what the left believes. My problem is if you are going to support free speech you need to allow speech that groups dislike. If Canada disagrees with free speech, that is fine, but they should stop pretending they do. > I recommend to read that article assuming Jordan B Peterson might be dishonest or misguided about his intentions and then reflect. I fully understand there is a disagreement. Peterson believes it will be used to go further than supporters claim. I don't know if it will go further, but as far as I can tell Peterson genuinely believes it will. >You literally were and you choose not to reply to the part where i go through what you wrote and show that this is how i only could interpret it. Perhaps I wasn't clear. I was attempting to say others using the preferred pronouns is controversial, not the opinion held by trans people on the topic. >Moving on. Now that we established that it is not what you disagreed with, what part of my argument exactly did you disagree with? With regard to what society did you disagree with it? All I disagree with is the idea that society supports using preferred pronouns. Maybe you weren't claiming otherwise in your original post? I think American society disagrees with this. Other societies like Canada likely have higher support, but I haven't seen any research on this. Regardless of the exact numbers, large percentages of all societies disagree with this and people are having __soft__ persecution when they disagree.

_-david-_ 4y ago

>Because that's "What many people believe" Maybe you should look again? 37% of non religious people disagree with trans. You are discounting the opinions held by millions of people because it doesn't fit your narrative. >I suggest you have a look at the section: Unfortunately the heading disagreed with the title of the chart so I wasn't sure if pronouns were actually included or just name. Most people who disagree with the concept of trans are fine with name changes since name changes are something they find acceptable. >Does Elliot actually live in the US though? I could find mo source for this. He sold his LA mansion. I could find a blog spammy website which claims Hammersmith, London, United Kingdom and many articles where he claims he was in Canada during the pandemic and also about him last being seen in Toronto. I do not see how this relevant though since: I am not sure as well. > I suspect any lawyer on behalf of Mr. Page would sue in the legal system where they have the best chance. As far as i know he is still a Canadian. I am not sure if Page would have standing? If a crime takes place across a border can it be enforced in another country? I guess it depends on where Page is living. >Please try to engage in good faith. You are the one claiming you were going to steel man and yet you didn't. > I never claimed he was. That would be retarded position to take. That is not what i think larger (Canadian) society has a problem with. You are basically repeating his claim about he aims to do. Correct. I don't believe in assuming people are lying when they clearly and explicitly say something. > Let me tell you how i see him now. He is a person who plausibly (although less plausibly so after this incident) says he means no harm to trans people and would treat trans persons he knows with respect. I assume you believe using the non preferred pronouns causes harm? >What the left takes issue with is his political activism to limit and walk back protection of trans people from hate. The results from his activism be would permission to harass trans people as a group by trying to deny them the status of a protected group. This is the content of Bill C 16. I agree this is what the left believes. My problem is if you are going to support free speech you need to allow speech that groups dislike. If Canada disagrees with free speech, that is fine, but they should stop pretending they do. > I recommend to read that article assuming Jordan B Peterson might be dishonest or misguided about his intentions and then reflect. I fully understand there is a disagreement. Peterson believes it will be used to go further than supporters claim. I don't know if it will go further, but as far as I can tell Peterson genuinely believes it will. >You literally were and you choose not to reply to the part where i go through what you wrote and show that this is how i only could interpret it. Perhaps I wasn't clear. I was attempting to say others using the preferred pronouns is controversial, not the opinion held by trans people on the topic. >Moving on. Now that we established that it is not what you disagreed with, what part of my argument exactly did you disagree with? With regard to what society did you disagree with it? All I disagree with is the idea that society supports using preferred pronouns. Maybe you weren't claiming otherwise in your original post? I think American society disagrees with this. Other societies like Canada likely have higher support, but I haven't seen any research on this. Regardless of the exact numbers, large percentages of all societies disagree with this and people are having __soft__ persecution when they disagree.