5 ms·

PZ are useless as a standard because it's not significantly different enough from others, and you can't tell which PZ you need. Torx and hex is brilliant becau

PZ are useless as a standard because it's not significantly different enough from others, and you can't tell which PZ you need. Torx and hex is brilliant because you can easily say which shape of bit you need, and you'll instantly know if you pick the wrong one. Luckily Torx seems to have finally won and screws that require any kind of moment (construction/decking/fasteners/) now seem to use them in stores, while only the kind of scre you'd hang up a picture frame with is PH/PZ. I have never seen a square (Robertson?) screw in the wild, I assume that's regional.

mc32 4y ago
I see Robertson on Decks/Decking mostly --they are stainless or rust resistant so their necks/shanks don't weaken over time. Others rust and when you try to take them out they shear off easily.
darkerside 4y ago
Worse than useless, that makes them actively harmful. I'm glad I know pozidrive now.
cout 4y ago
Most of the cement board screws I've used (for installing shower tile) are square head; I've not done much shower work so I don't know if that's a trend or just what the store has at the time. My fleetwood mobile home built in the late 90s was assembled entirely with square head screws, hex head lag bolts, glue, and a lot of staples.
rsync 4y ago
"I have never seen a square (Robertson?) screw in the wild, I assume that's regional." Simpson makes very large diameter, 4" stainless steel screws that I rather like: #12 x 4", model number is S12400DBB ... those are 306 stainless but if you want 316 you would get T12400DBB. IF we use screw fasteners in framing, we typically use GRK 3-1/8"-#10 but once in a while we just want something beefier and those simpson 4"-#12 are fantastic ... ... and they are square drive.
- Zobat 4y ago
  Being from Europe (Sweden) I can't remember having ever seen a square drive screw. Torx is slowly becoming the standard here.
- alkonaut 4y ago
  We get some Simpsons stuff in Europe (like nail plates and beam hangers) but I don’t think the screws are sold in Europe. If they were I don’t think it would be very easy to introduce a square bit screw in s as market where they are unknown. And obviously, not much uses any imperial naming. I think this is regionally produced because e.g a beam hanger for 45mm timber has to be pretty close to 45mm and a 2” won’t do.
rbut 4y ago
> I have never seen a square (Robertson?) screw in the wild, I assume that's regional. Reasonably common here in Australia. Our decking screws are either Torx or Square Drive.
OJFord 4y ago
> I have never seen a square (Robertson?) screw in the wild, I assume that's regional. Almost exclusively Canadian I believe. You can get them though, I bought a Kreg pocket hole jig in the UK which came with some for some reason, and had no problem getting bits for them (Amazon I think). I'd never seen them (IRL) before that either.
- manfre 4y ago
  They're readily available in the US as well. I've mostly used them with pocket holes.
- tonyarkles 4y ago
  They’re absolutely everywhere in Canada, so much so that it’s easy to forget that they’re not used everywhere. As a curiosity for anyone non-Canadian, if you were going to go to the hardware store and get screws to screw together some dimensional lumber (e.g. 2x4s), what kind of drive would you expect to find? I’m not even sure if I could find 3” wood screws here that aren’t Robertson.
  - OJFord 4y ago
    Standard would be pozidriv, probably PZ2. You could certainly get torx if you preferred though (or Phillips or flat, if you really hate yourself!) - UK.
LeonM 4y ago
> Torx and hex is brilliant because you can easily say which shape of bit you need, and you'll instantly know if you pick the wrong one. In my experience, a problem with Torx is that it is a common mistake to use a bit one size smaller than what it should be. It will still engage just fine, but if you apply too much force, you'll destroy the bit, or head, or both. I find it a lot harder to notice when I pick the wrong size Torx bit, compared to a Philips or Pozidriv. I have made this mistake a lot when using Torx. I have learned myself to always test a bit one size larger than what I think I need, just to be sure.
- Zobat 4y ago
  Always test the bigger bit in Torx if you don't know which bit you should use. Though many (larger) boxes of Torx screws come with one or two bits.
- ryanbrunner 4y ago
  Yeah, I haven't used Torx, but the author listed 100 sizes as a feature, and I'd strongly disagree. I think Robinson having a small number of sizes makes it extremely obvious when you're using the wrong one, and you can almost always tell the correct Robinson to use by sight alone. (the author lists 6 sizes, but in practice 100% of applications I've seen have used one of three)
  - alkonaut 4y ago
    Not sure how many sizes of Torz there actually are, but I have only seen T10,15,20,25,30,35,40 which is 7 sizes. I think I saw a smaller one in a precision screwdriver set next to the other weird iPhone/watch ones like tiny pentalobes. But effectively Torx for all normal applications is one of 7 sizes, with T20 and T25 being probably 95% of all wood screws for building/carpentry applications. I wasn’t aware that there could even be a “T17” or “T31” - simply because no one would ever do it. Increments of 5 is already close enough to some times guess wrong.
- dpierce9 4y ago
  In my experience appropriately sizing Philips is basically impossible unless the screw itself is marked. The #2 is way more common it seems so that helps with the default but if you know it isn’t #2 then you are screwed (har har) because many different size drivers will ‘fit’ and ‘work’.
Tangurena4 4y ago
When I lived in Southern Florida, I did some volunteer work for Habitat for Humanity. They used Robertsons for sheet rock.
- tonyarkles 4y ago
  Now that’s really interesting! In Canada, where Robertson is almost ubiquitous, Sheetrock screws are one of the few exceptions in construction that still use Philips-head screws; usually with a special bit that forces the driver to cam out once the head is flush with the wall. https://www.homedepot.ca/product/dewalt-drywall-dimplers-3-pack-/1000112322 https://www.homedepot.ca/product/dewalt-drywall-dimplers-3-p...
lebuffon 4y ago
"I have never seen a square (Robertson?) screw in the wild, I assume that's regional." The way I heard it was that Mr. Robertson gave his new screws to Henry Ford for testing. Ford wanted to use them but Robertson insisted on a royalty per screw. Ford would not agree to that so the deal failed. This is probably the reason they are a regional rather than an international screw. The entire electrical hardware industry uses square heads in Canada. (Source: Probably CBC radio many decades ago (?) )
- auxym 4y ago
  All deck and floor screws are also Robertson in my part of Canada. I've seen drywall screws in both Robertson and Philips however.
GnarfGnarf 4y ago
Canadian here. I have been using Robertsons for forty years. It's all you can get at the hardware store: #10/black-handle screwdriver, #8/red, #6/green and #4/yellow. They are a joy to work with. They're so good nobody will buy the old straight slot or Philips. Slide a screw onto the screwdriver. Hold it horizontally. Holds fast. Can you do that with Torx?
- Tuna-Fish 4y ago
  Yes, absolutely, and even better than Robertson does. The way I'd describe Torx to someone who is used to Robertson is that Torx is like Robertson, only more so. That is, all the things you'd consider the strengths of Robertson are things that Torx is better at.
  - refurb 4y ago
    Agreed, having used both kinds I find Torx tend to hold better. Not sure if the tolerances are tighter, but I’ve come across Robinson that tend to be a bit loose and it’s much easier to strip. Torx fit very snuggly and even the smaller bolt is hard to strip as long as you have the right but size.
- bonestamp2 4y ago
  Peter Robertson (the inventor) is Canadian and Robertson screws are very popular there as you mentioned. They exist elsewhere in varying degrees. For example, I live in Southern California and I haven't seen them at the hardware store until recently. I found one behind a wall-plate in my home several years ago when I was changing a light switch. Thankfully, I'm Canadian, so I already had the right tool -- right next to the unspent Canadian Tire money in my toolbox. ;)
  - inferiorhuman 4y ago
    Yeah the legend goes something like Robertson tried to get Henry Ford to use them but wanted too much money to license the design. As an American the only Robertson screws I've ever seen came from the subwoofer enclosure on my car… which I imported from Canadia.
pram 4y ago
I had never seen a square screw until I put together a wood playhouse. From the information in this thread it seems to be used in wooden things?
32bitkid 4y ago
Something that took me an embarrassing long time to realize was that North American electrical outlet binding terminals are a combination slotted/Robertson screw head. The Robertson is great. Klein tools makes combination head tools that engage both, which is fantastic if you are upgrading a bunch of outlets.

mc32 4y ago

I see Robertson on Decks/Decking mostly --they are stainless or rust resistant so their necks/shanks don't weaken over time. Others rust and when you try to take them out they shear off easily.

darkerside 4y ago

Worse than useless, that makes them actively harmful. I'm glad I know pozidrive now.

cout 4y ago

Most of the cement board screws I've used (for installing shower tile) are square head; I've not done much shower work so I don't know if that's a trend or just what the store has at the time. My fleetwood mobile home built in the late 90s was assembled entirely with square head screws, hex head lag bolts, glue, and a lot of staples.

rsync 4y ago

"I have never seen a square (Robertson?) screw in the wild, I assume that's regional." Simpson makes very large diameter, 4" stainless steel screws that I rather like: #12 x 4", model number is S12400DBB ... those are 306 stainless but if you want 316 you would get T12400DBB. IF we use screw fasteners in framing, we typically use GRK 3-1/8"-#10 but once in a while we just want something beefier and those simpson 4"-#12 are fantastic ... ... and they are square drive.

Zobat 4y ago
Being from Europe (Sweden) I can't remember having ever seen a square drive screw. Torx is slowly becoming the standard here.
alkonaut 4y ago
We get some Simpsons stuff in Europe (like nail plates and beam hangers) but I don’t think the screws are sold in Europe. If they were I don’t think it would be very easy to introduce a square bit screw in s as market where they are unknown. And obviously, not much uses any imperial naming. I think this is regionally produced because e.g a beam hanger for 45mm timber has to be pretty close to 45mm and a 2” won’t do.

rbut 4y ago

> I have never seen a square (Robertson?) screw in the wild, I assume that's regional. Reasonably common here in Australia. Our decking screws are either Torx or Square Drive.

OJFord 4y ago

> I have never seen a square (Robertson?) screw in the wild, I assume that's regional. Almost exclusively Canadian I believe. You can get them though, I bought a Kreg pocket hole jig in the UK which came with some for some reason, and had no problem getting bits for them (Amazon I think). I'd never seen them (IRL) before that either.

manfre 4y ago
They're readily available in the US as well. I've mostly used them with pocket holes.
tonyarkles 4y ago
They’re absolutely everywhere in Canada, so much so that it’s easy to forget that they’re not used everywhere. As a curiosity for anyone non-Canadian, if you were going to go to the hardware store and get screws to screw together some dimensional lumber (e.g. 2x4s), what kind of drive would you expect to find? I’m not even sure if I could find 3” wood screws here that aren’t Robertson.
- OJFord 4y ago
  Standard would be pozidriv, probably PZ2. You could certainly get torx if you preferred though (or Phillips or flat, if you really hate yourself!) - UK.

LeonM 4y ago

> Torx and hex is brilliant because you can easily say which shape of bit you need, and you'll instantly know if you pick the wrong one. In my experience, a problem with Torx is that it is a common mistake to use a bit one size smaller than what it should be. It will still engage just fine, but if you apply too much force, you'll destroy the bit, or head, or both. I find it a lot harder to notice when I pick the wrong size Torx bit, compared to a Philips or Pozidriv. I have made this mistake a lot when using Torx. I have learned myself to always test a bit one size larger than what I think I need, just to be sure.

Zobat 4y ago
Always test the bigger bit in Torx if you don't know which bit you should use. Though many (larger) boxes of Torx screws come with one or two bits.
ryanbrunner 4y ago
Yeah, I haven't used Torx, but the author listed 100 sizes as a feature, and I'd strongly disagree. I think Robinson having a small number of sizes makes it extremely obvious when you're using the wrong one, and you can almost always tell the correct Robinson to use by sight alone. (the author lists 6 sizes, but in practice 100% of applications I've seen have used one of three)
- alkonaut 4y ago
  Not sure how many sizes of Torz there actually are, but I have only seen T10,15,20,25,30,35,40 which is 7 sizes. I think I saw a smaller one in a precision screwdriver set next to the other weird iPhone/watch ones like tiny pentalobes. But effectively Torx for all normal applications is one of 7 sizes, with T20 and T25 being probably 95% of all wood screws for building/carpentry applications. I wasn’t aware that there could even be a “T17” or “T31” - simply because no one would ever do it. Increments of 5 is already close enough to some times guess wrong.
dpierce9 4y ago
In my experience appropriately sizing Philips is basically impossible unless the screw itself is marked. The #2 is way more common it seems so that helps with the default but if you know it isn’t #2 then you are screwed (har har) because many different size drivers will ‘fit’ and ‘work’.

Tangurena4 4y ago

When I lived in Southern Florida, I did some volunteer work for Habitat for Humanity. They used Robertsons for sheet rock.

tonyarkles 4y ago
Now that’s really interesting! In Canada, where Robertson is almost ubiquitous, Sheetrock screws are one of the few exceptions in construction that still use Philips-head screws; usually with a special bit that forces the driver to cam out once the head is flush with the wall. https://www.homedepot.ca/product/dewalt-drywall-dimplers-3-pack-/1000112322 https://www.homedepot.ca/product/dewalt-drywall-dimplers-3-p...

lebuffon 4y ago

"I have never seen a square (Robertson?) screw in the wild, I assume that's regional." The way I heard it was that Mr. Robertson gave his new screws to Henry Ford for testing. Ford wanted to use them but Robertson insisted on a royalty per screw. Ford would not agree to that so the deal failed. This is probably the reason they are a regional rather than an international screw. The entire electrical hardware industry uses square heads in Canada. (Source: Probably CBC radio many decades ago (?) )

auxym 4y ago
All deck and floor screws are also Robertson in my part of Canada. I've seen drywall screws in both Robertson and Philips however.

GnarfGnarf 4y ago

Canadian here. I have been using Robertsons for forty years. It's all you can get at the hardware store: #10/black-handle screwdriver, #8/red, #6/green and #4/yellow. They are a joy to work with. They're so good nobody will buy the old straight slot or Philips. Slide a screw onto the screwdriver. Hold it horizontally. Holds fast. Can you do that with Torx?

Tuna-Fish 4y ago
Yes, absolutely, and even better than Robertson does. The way I'd describe Torx to someone who is used to Robertson is that Torx is like Robertson, only more so. That is, all the things you'd consider the strengths of Robertson are things that Torx is better at.
- refurb 4y ago
  Agreed, having used both kinds I find Torx tend to hold better. Not sure if the tolerances are tighter, but I’ve come across Robinson that tend to be a bit loose and it’s much easier to strip. Torx fit very snuggly and even the smaller bolt is hard to strip as long as you have the right but size.
bonestamp2 4y ago
Peter Robertson (the inventor) is Canadian and Robertson screws are very popular there as you mentioned. They exist elsewhere in varying degrees. For example, I live in Southern California and I haven't seen them at the hardware store until recently. I found one behind a wall-plate in my home several years ago when I was changing a light switch. Thankfully, I'm Canadian, so I already had the right tool -- right next to the unspent Canadian Tire money in my toolbox. ;)
- inferiorhuman 4y ago
  Yeah the legend goes something like Robertson tried to get Henry Ford to use them but wanted too much money to license the design. As an American the only Robertson screws I've ever seen came from the subwoofer enclosure on my car… which I imported from Canadia.

pram 4y ago

I had never seen a square screw until I put together a wood playhouse. From the information in this thread it seems to be used in wooden things?

32bitkid 4y ago

Something that took me an embarrassing long time to realize was that North American electrical outlet binding terminals are a combination slotted/Robertson screw head. The Robertson is great. Klein tools makes combination head tools that engage both, which is fantastic if you are upgrading a bunch of outlets.