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> If I recall correctly, both GNOME and Unity shared rejection from a number of users (I don't know if that was large group or just very noisy) The GNOME redes

> If I recall correctly, both GNOME and Unity shared rejection from a number of users (I don't know if that was large group or just very noisy) The GNOME redesign. The old 2D GNOME was OK. It was functional, stable and pretty (for someone who thinks that Windows 3.11 style is a good fit for a work environment). Then the old software was abandoned and the update was pushed onto users. KDE also had a transition disaster. That time was not a good time for Linux on the Desktop.

rob74 4y ago
Has there ever been a good time for Linux on the desktop? I'm using Linux (Kubuntu) daily, and it works most of the time, but I still see some issues from time to time (multi-monitor strangeness, windows suddenly appearing without frames because kwin crashed, desktop wallpapers not being shown or being shown incorrectly etc.).
- majewsky 4y ago
  Isn't that just how all desktop OSes are? It works most of the time, and then sometimes you run into things that are bafflingly broken. For me, it's the Windows desktop at work. I'm accustomed to Windows spawning windows fully or partially out of bounds, though at least that's something that you can fix with the "Move" option from the Ctrl+Space menu. But for a few weeks now, there seems to be a bug where the affected window just stops being rendered entirely. It's in the taskbar, I can start Ctrl+Space "Move" and see the movement cursor, but there's nothing there. I don't know what triggers it yet. Meanwhile, my Linux desktop has no problems at all.
  - noisy_boy 4y ago
    Having made a sibling comment lamenting issues with my Linux desktop, I have to sort of agree with you. Sort of because, I have seen issues like what you mentioned on Windows in the past, but not that often. I use Linux desktop not only on principle but also because of open source and the flexibility is unparalleled, but I do feel like things break more often than they do on Windows (maybe due to the amount of flexibility and therefore the use cases/scenarios it has to deal with). Having said that, Pop!_OS was also problem free for me for quite a while until the desktop blanking issue started happening - right at the time of NVIDIA driver upgrade. Linus was right shitting on them - my next laptop would not be using NVIDIA for sure.
  - christophilus 4y ago
    Yes. I had easily as many issues with Windows and OSX when each was my d at driver. I don’t really have anything bad to say about Fedora + Gnome except that occasionally, my 5k thunderbolt monitor is finicky when waking from sleep. It’s a simple enough fix, but it’s still a minor inconvenience maybe once a month. Linux package management alone puts it ahead of both Windows and OSX in my book.
- noisy_boy 4y ago
  I would have disagreed with you except atleast once a day (usually more), my monitors go blank and once the display is back after few seconds, all the windows get shoved to the smaller monitor on the right, all resized to the monitor size. I move the windows again one by one to the main monitor, resize them to how they were and curse NVIDIA while praying that this doesn't happen again too soon. Even changed from Pop! desktop to KDE which didn't help (that's why my unsubstantiated choice is to curse NVIDIA instead of the DE). Cherry on top if I'm connected to the work machine over Citrix so I have some more windows to resize and reposition over there too. Close to two decades of using Linux desktop on a daily basis and I still have to deal with these issues. As someone who doesn't have any intention to leave Linux due to these issues, I don't think there EVER will be a 100% rock-solid time for Linux desktop. Wayland will stabilize and then people will point out issues with it, come-up with another component and we will wait for that to stabilize - and on and on, forever. Ironically, such issues rarely happened, if ever, when I was using Ubuntu Dapper Drake.
  - boomboomsubban 4y ago
    >my monitors go blank and once the display is back after few seconds, Are you sure you aren't having power issues? I had similar problems I think I fixed with randr, but a UPS for your monitors might be a better choice. Never daily though, more storm based or once every few months.
    - noisy_boy 4y ago
      That is an interesting point - though no other devices are affected so it is unlikely that this is related to power.
      - boomboomsubban 4y ago
        I'm only sharing my experience, but the reason I figured out it was a power thing was in the summer my AC would stop for a second too. I never noticed any problems with anything else in the winter.
  - 4y ago
- michaelmrose 4y ago
  Yes for someone like yourself who is comfortable with a computer from 2003-2022. The challenge is that Linux isn't a singular product its a source compatible ecosystem of parts. There has always existed a collection of excellent parts one could use to make an excellent experience. However as a user you probably don't want to build your own distro so you are going to be relying on someone else's collection and projects come and go and differ substantially in quality both between projects and over time. For instance Ubuntu has basically from my perspective gone to hell.
- AtlasBarfed 4y ago
  I love linux but the desktops are horrendously balkanized. I support the continued development of Unity in the hopes it destroys others. I mean, it won't.... but at least Linux is trying. We had a solid 10 years of Apple neglecting OSX and more importantly Microsoft ruining windows with their tiles dual desktop. What did Linux do? pointless rewrites that added nothing to the fundamental usability of the desktops. The opportunity has passed. We either hope that Satella moves Windows closer to Linux/Unix, or ... desktop linux fades with desktops in general.
pxc 4y ago
> KDE also had a transition disaster. That time was not a good time for Linux on the Desktop. KDE's transition disaster came a bit earlier, with the release of KDE 4.0 in 2008. By the time GNOME 3 came out in 2011, KDE 4.x had seen 6 or 7 feature releases, and had (imo) largely recovered from all the rewrites in terms of feature parity. I was pretty happy on KDE in 2011.
dm319 4y ago
That period I stopped recommending linux to friends as I felt burned by the experience of losing gnome 2. I remember going from ubuntu 10.04 beyond support, to xfce, gnome fallback, gnome flashback, linux mint cinnamon, crunchbang (stayed a while), linux mint mate then ubuntuMate, where I've been for several years now. I'd say UbuntuMATE is functional, boring and pretty, and frankly should be the modern standard for a work environment linux.
jeroenhd 4y ago
I much prefer modern GNOME and KDE to their older counterparts. I believe modern DEs definitely lack a certain polish, but the old, clunky late-00s UI is incredibly unappealing. I can see why existing Linux users may have resisted the change but I wouldn't have even tried Ubuntu long enoughto switch to Linux had they stuck with the old system. Windows 3.11 is a terrible fit for productivity, Win95/98/2000 were immensely better. The Windows usability only improved until mscursed themselves with Windows 8 (with the exception of Vista which was released before it was done and was almost as buggy as modern Linux, though SP1 fixed most of that).
michaelmrose 4y ago
The biggest deal was that you couldn't have old and new and many distros with a rapid release cycle adopted new versions as soon as they became available. For instance KDE 4.0 which wasn't really ready came out 11 January 2008. Fedora 9 came out in May. Had simply choosing 3 or 4 beta as it might accurately have been called been possible at login I think there would have been zero issues. 4.0 wasn't actively broken but it lacked polish and it was missing features from 3.x that hasn't been implemented yet.

rob74 4y ago

Has there ever been a good time for Linux on the desktop? I'm using Linux (Kubuntu) daily, and it works most of the time, but I still see some issues from time to time (multi-monitor strangeness, windows suddenly appearing without frames because kwin crashed, desktop wallpapers not being shown or being shown incorrectly etc.).

majewsky 4y ago
Isn't that just how all desktop OSes are? It works most of the time, and then sometimes you run into things that are bafflingly broken. For me, it's the Windows desktop at work. I'm accustomed to Windows spawning windows fully or partially out of bounds, though at least that's something that you can fix with the "Move" option from the Ctrl+Space menu. But for a few weeks now, there seems to be a bug where the affected window just stops being rendered entirely. It's in the taskbar, I can start Ctrl+Space "Move" and see the movement cursor, but there's nothing there. I don't know what triggers it yet. Meanwhile, my Linux desktop has no problems at all.
- noisy_boy 4y ago
  Having made a sibling comment lamenting issues with my Linux desktop, I have to sort of agree with you. Sort of because, I have seen issues like what you mentioned on Windows in the past, but not that often. I use Linux desktop not only on principle but also because of open source and the flexibility is unparalleled, but I do feel like things break more often than they do on Windows (maybe due to the amount of flexibility and therefore the use cases/scenarios it has to deal with). Having said that, Pop!_OS was also problem free for me for quite a while until the desktop blanking issue started happening - right at the time of NVIDIA driver upgrade. Linus was right shitting on them - my next laptop would not be using NVIDIA for sure.
- christophilus 4y ago
  Yes. I had easily as many issues with Windows and OSX when each was my d at driver. I don’t really have anything bad to say about Fedora + Gnome except that occasionally, my 5k thunderbolt monitor is finicky when waking from sleep. It’s a simple enough fix, but it’s still a minor inconvenience maybe once a month. Linux package management alone puts it ahead of both Windows and OSX in my book.
noisy_boy 4y ago
I would have disagreed with you except atleast once a day (usually more), my monitors go blank and once the display is back after few seconds, all the windows get shoved to the smaller monitor on the right, all resized to the monitor size. I move the windows again one by one to the main monitor, resize them to how they were and curse NVIDIA while praying that this doesn't happen again too soon. Even changed from Pop! desktop to KDE which didn't help (that's why my unsubstantiated choice is to curse NVIDIA instead of the DE). Cherry on top if I'm connected to the work machine over Citrix so I have some more windows to resize and reposition over there too. Close to two decades of using Linux desktop on a daily basis and I still have to deal with these issues. As someone who doesn't have any intention to leave Linux due to these issues, I don't think there EVER will be a 100% rock-solid time for Linux desktop. Wayland will stabilize and then people will point out issues with it, come-up with another component and we will wait for that to stabilize - and on and on, forever. Ironically, such issues rarely happened, if ever, when I was using Ubuntu Dapper Drake.
- boomboomsubban 4y ago
  >my monitors go blank and once the display is back after few seconds, Are you sure you aren't having power issues? I had similar problems I think I fixed with randr, but a UPS for your monitors might be a better choice. Never daily though, more storm based or once every few months.
  - noisy_boy 4y ago
    That is an interesting point - though no other devices are affected so it is unlikely that this is related to power.
    - boomboomsubban 4y ago
      I'm only sharing my experience, but the reason I figured out it was a power thing was in the summer my AC would stop for a second too. I never noticed any problems with anything else in the winter.
- 4y ago
michaelmrose 4y ago
Yes for someone like yourself who is comfortable with a computer from 2003-2022. The challenge is that Linux isn't a singular product its a source compatible ecosystem of parts. There has always existed a collection of excellent parts one could use to make an excellent experience. However as a user you probably don't want to build your own distro so you are going to be relying on someone else's collection and projects come and go and differ substantially in quality both between projects and over time. For instance Ubuntu has basically from my perspective gone to hell.
AtlasBarfed 4y ago
I love linux but the desktops are horrendously balkanized. I support the continued development of Unity in the hopes it destroys others. I mean, it won't.... but at least Linux is trying. We had a solid 10 years of Apple neglecting OSX and more importantly Microsoft ruining windows with their tiles dual desktop. What did Linux do? pointless rewrites that added nothing to the fundamental usability of the desktops. The opportunity has passed. We either hope that Satella moves Windows closer to Linux/Unix, or ... desktop linux fades with desktops in general.

pxc 4y ago

> KDE also had a transition disaster. That time was not a good time for Linux on the Desktop. KDE's transition disaster came a bit earlier, with the release of KDE 4.0 in 2008. By the time GNOME 3 came out in 2011, KDE 4.x had seen 6 or 7 feature releases, and had (imo) largely recovered from all the rewrites in terms of feature parity. I was pretty happy on KDE in 2011.

dm319 4y ago

That period I stopped recommending linux to friends as I felt burned by the experience of losing gnome 2. I remember going from ubuntu 10.04 beyond support, to xfce, gnome fallback, gnome flashback, linux mint cinnamon, crunchbang (stayed a while), linux mint mate then ubuntuMate, where I've been for several years now. I'd say UbuntuMATE is functional, boring and pretty, and frankly should be the modern standard for a work environment linux.

jeroenhd 4y ago

I much prefer modern GNOME and KDE to their older counterparts. I believe modern DEs definitely lack a certain polish, but the old, clunky late-00s UI is incredibly unappealing. I can see why existing Linux users may have resisted the change but I wouldn't have even tried Ubuntu long enoughto switch to Linux had they stuck with the old system. Windows 3.11 is a terrible fit for productivity, Win95/98/2000 were immensely better. The Windows usability only improved until mscursed themselves with Windows 8 (with the exception of Vista which was released before it was done and was almost as buggy as modern Linux, though SP1 fixed most of that).

michaelmrose 4y ago

The biggest deal was that you couldn't have old and new and many distros with a rapid release cycle adopted new versions as soon as they became available. For instance KDE 4.0 which wasn't really ready came out 11 January 2008. Fedora 9 came out in May. Had simply choosing 3 or 4 beta as it might accurately have been called been possible at login I think there would have been zero issues. 4.0 wasn't actively broken but it lacked polish and it was missing features from 3.x that hasn't been implemented yet.