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> As a long-time Linux user, I do not understand how everyone still tolerates how Gnome (and Wayland) do things. Considering how many people have abandoned th

> As a long-time Linux user, I do not understand how everyone still tolerates how Gnome (and Wayland) do things. Considering how many people have abandoned the GNU/Linux desktop in favor of MacOS, I'm not convinced "everyone" tolerates it. But it's also unclear to me how you would even quantify this. What does being intolerant in this context look like, other than just not using gnome? Do you expect gnome users to picket and/or burn down the homes of the developers? It's kind of a ridiculous statement, and I feel like it's demonstrative of the kind of asshole entitlement FOSS users often exhibit instead of say, getting involved to influence the direction of upstream development.

pxc 4y ago
> Considering how many people have abandoned the GNU/Linux desktop in favor of MacOS, I'm not convinced "everyone" tolerates it. Abandoning GNU/Linux in favor of macOS for political reasons, specifically as a reaction to Gnome, makes no sense to me. The things that frustrate people about Gnome (low configurability, highly opinionated design, low interoperability or deliberate incompatibility with other ecosystems) are all things that are very much present in Apple software. Even other parts of this stack, which it is insinuated emanate from the same overbearing Red Hat influence (systemd, PulseAudio), were inspired by macOS on a technical level. I understand macOS has other strengths, but idk why anyone would see it as a refuge from the perceived problems with Gnome, systemd, Wayland, etc.
- orbifold 4y ago
  Gnome has become objectively worse, much worse in fact compared to the version that I have used regularly. My desktop runs Windows now and if I happen to use it for work I will prefer to remotely connect to it, so that I don’t have to deal with whatever the Linux desktop has become.
  - blinzy 4y ago
    It has become worse for you; for me as a user it has become incredibly smooth for my use case, requiring literally no tweaking/toggling whatsoever to have a decent experience out of the box, which definitely wasn't the case for me 10 years ago. So what I want to say is that it's subjective, don't say it's worse like some objective fact, when there are many people who don't share your opinion, just like there are many people that never liked Gnome (not now, not before), and they're all correct in that it's mostly about what works for each individual and that's it.
jrm4 4y ago
I mean, the unfortunate thing is that we don't have something closer to "voting" in this space. I very much do not believe that one must be a knowledgable dev to have an expressible opinion here.

pxc 4y ago

> Considering how many people have abandoned the GNU/Linux desktop in favor of MacOS, I'm not convinced "everyone" tolerates it. Abandoning GNU/Linux in favor of macOS for political reasons, specifically as a reaction to Gnome, makes no sense to me. The things that frustrate people about Gnome (low configurability, highly opinionated design, low interoperability or deliberate incompatibility with other ecosystems) are all things that are very much present in Apple software. Even other parts of this stack, which it is insinuated emanate from the same overbearing Red Hat influence (systemd, PulseAudio), were inspired by macOS on a technical level. I understand macOS has other strengths, but idk why anyone would see it as a refuge from the perceived problems with Gnome, systemd, Wayland, etc.

orbifold 4y ago
Gnome has become objectively worse, much worse in fact compared to the version that I have used regularly. My desktop runs Windows now and if I happen to use it for work I will prefer to remotely connect to it, so that I don’t have to deal with whatever the Linux desktop has become.
- blinzy 4y ago
  It has become worse for you; for me as a user it has become incredibly smooth for my use case, requiring literally no tweaking/toggling whatsoever to have a decent experience out of the box, which definitely wasn't the case for me 10 years ago. So what I want to say is that it's subjective, don't say it's worse like some objective fact, when there are many people who don't share your opinion, just like there are many people that never liked Gnome (not now, not before), and they're all correct in that it's mostly about what works for each individual and that's it.

jrm4 4y ago

I mean, the unfortunate thing is that we don't have something closer to "voting" in this space. I very much do not believe that one must be a knowledgable dev to have an expressible opinion here.