4 ms·

I've just been doing some repairs on an old deck and all the hardware is square. I don't think I've ever seen a square screw/bolt before moving to North Americ

by YZF 4y ago

I've just been doing some repairs on an old deck and all the hardware is square. I don't think I've ever seen a square screw/bolt before moving to North America... With most of my deck screws I just can't get them and have to force the board off or try to pull them out like nails. Between dirt, rust, corrision and some s(l)ight inaccuracies between the driver and the screw I can't seem to get a grab without rounding the square. As the article mentions you have to keep pushing the driver in which isn't always easy depending on what sort of access you have. The other problem is there's so many different sizes and there doesn't seem to be a clear way to figure out the right bit given their slight variations and the condition of old screws. Would be interesting to try and quantify these differences with tests. I still prefer Allen screws, especially if you can get enough depth. The difference between the sizes is pretty clear (if you can tell if it's metric or not...) and they seem to grab pretty solidly. Don't have that much experience with Torx but when working on my BMW motorcycle that had a lot of Torx bolts they seemed to work fairly well, too many different styles/sizes for my liking though so harder to find the correct bit...

madaxe_again 4y ago
If you’re really struggling, you can get a screw remover bit - typically just a little tapered hardened metal bit that has a counterclockwise cutting thread. Dead easy for getting out headless wonders.
- throwaway744678 4y ago
  This, definitely. If you don't have one with you, you can also hammer a slightly larger torx bit into the rounded square and unscrew. This may damage the bit, though.
patrick451 4y ago
If you're not already, use an impact driver. It's much much easier to prevent cam out compared to a regular drill. I think they also make the job less taxing because you can get away with applying a lot less pressure.
- lostlogin 4y ago
  Having recently replaced the hinges for a 1940s house, I think this might be the way. I got the flat head screws out by cleaning the groove, putting a screw driver in, then smacking it with a hammer, hard. Then I unscrewed. It took a lot of time, and about 1/3rd the screws snapped in half (which was fairly helpful, as it got the hinge off).
  - throwaway742 4y ago
    The hammer is the key. Granted I'm not working on 1940s stuff so you have a unique challenge. Usually I am just dealing with painted over screws no older than 1970s, but usually just a good screwdriver and a hammer gets the job done for me.
    - jimnotgym 4y ago
      And this is an important feature of slotted screws, it is much easier to get paint out of them than any other system. If the screws snap it is usually a case of bad screws rather than the system. The ultimate driver for slotted screws is a Stanley Yankee, and probably what put them in the first time!
- klodolph 4y ago
  I really like having torque control, though. I use it always.
SeanLuke 4y ago
> I've just been doing some repairs on an old deck and all the hardware is square. I don't think I've ever seen a square screw/bolt before moving to North America... This sounds like Robertson, which is uniquely Canadian. Are you in Canada by any chance?
- rascul 4y ago
  For a time, Robertson drive was often used for decks and mobile homes in the USA.
tzs 4y ago
I had a similar problem replacing some deck boards. Mine where Philips heads. I was able to get some out with a manual impact driver and later some out with an electric impact driver. I had quite a few though that this didn't work on. What I ended up doing, which only works if you don't need to avoid damaging the board, was use a wood chisel to clear remove the wood around the screw head. I then gripped the exposed head tightly with locking pliers roughly perpendicular to the axis of the screw. It was then fairly easy to turn the screws. A small number of the heads broke off, but the locking pliers had no trouble turning those by the shaft instead. I used Milwaukee locking pliers [1]. Unlike most locking pliers where the locking knob is designed to only be turned directly by hand, the Milwaukee locking knob has a hole through it meant to allow you to stick a metal rod such as a screwdriver through it and use that to get a lot more torque for turning the knob than you can get by hand [2]. You can get an insanely tight lock this way. I only had one screw that this failed with. That one broke off low enough to leave nothing exposed above the bottom board. For that one I just left it in and made sure to place the replacement screw slightly to the side so it would go into wood instead of hitting the old screw. [1] https://www.milwaukeetool.com/Products/Hand-Tools/Pliers/Locking-Pliers https://www.milwaukeetool.com/Products/Hand-Tools/Pliers/Loc... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4piwT_Z12uw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4piwT_Z12uw
- jefftk 4y ago
  > Unlike most locking pliers where the locking knob is designed to only be turned directly by hand, the Milwaukee locking knob has a hole through it meant to allow you to stick a metal rod such as a screwdriver through it and use that to get a lot more torque for turning the knob than you can get by hand [2]. You can get an insanely tight lock this way. Why not open the pliers, tighten the knob, then close the pliers again? You have lots of leverage in closing the pliers; do you need even more than that?
  - tzs 4y ago
    I don't know if more than that is needed. I had never needed locking pliers before replacing those deck boards. Home Depot had several from Milwaukee and Husky, plus a couple from Stanley. The Milwaukee ones generally had better customer ratings, and some YouTube reviews I found liked them and mentioned the tightness of the lock you can get due to the screwdriver slot. I couldn't think of any situation where that would be a hindrance and it might be helpful in some situations, so I went with them. Also, the "t" in "tzs" stands for "Tim" so I was sort of obligated to go for more power. :-)

by YZF 4y ago

madaxe_again 4y ago

If you’re really struggling, you can get a screw remover bit - typically just a little tapered hardened metal bit that has a counterclockwise cutting thread. Dead easy for getting out headless wonders.

throwaway744678 4y ago
This, definitely. If you don't have one with you, you can also hammer a slightly larger torx bit into the rounded square and unscrew. This may damage the bit, though.

patrick451 4y ago

If you're not already, use an impact driver. It's much much easier to prevent cam out compared to a regular drill. I think they also make the job less taxing because you can get away with applying a lot less pressure.

lostlogin 4y ago
Having recently replaced the hinges for a 1940s house, I think this might be the way. I got the flat head screws out by cleaning the groove, putting a screw driver in, then smacking it with a hammer, hard. Then I unscrewed. It took a lot of time, and about 1/3rd the screws snapped in half (which was fairly helpful, as it got the hinge off).
- throwaway742 4y ago
  The hammer is the key. Granted I'm not working on 1940s stuff so you have a unique challenge. Usually I am just dealing with painted over screws no older than 1970s, but usually just a good screwdriver and a hammer gets the job done for me.
  - jimnotgym 4y ago
    And this is an important feature of slotted screws, it is much easier to get paint out of them than any other system. If the screws snap it is usually a case of bad screws rather than the system. The ultimate driver for slotted screws is a Stanley Yankee, and probably what put them in the first time!
klodolph 4y ago
I really like having torque control, though. I use it always.

SeanLuke 4y ago

> I've just been doing some repairs on an old deck and all the hardware is square. I don't think I've ever seen a square screw/bolt before moving to North America... This sounds like Robertson, which is uniquely Canadian. Are you in Canada by any chance?

rascul 4y ago
For a time, Robertson drive was often used for decks and mobile homes in the USA.

tzs 4y ago

I had a similar problem replacing some deck boards. Mine where Philips heads. I was able to get some out with a manual impact driver and later some out with an electric impact driver. I had quite a few though that this didn't work on. What I ended up doing, which only works if you don't need to avoid damaging the board, was use a wood chisel to clear remove the wood around the screw head. I then gripped the exposed head tightly with locking pliers roughly perpendicular to the axis of the screw. It was then fairly easy to turn the screws. A small number of the heads broke off, but the locking pliers had no trouble turning those by the shaft instead. I used Milwaukee locking pliers [1]. Unlike most locking pliers where the locking knob is designed to only be turned directly by hand, the Milwaukee locking knob has a hole through it meant to allow you to stick a metal rod such as a screwdriver through it and use that to get a lot more torque for turning the knob than you can get by hand [2]. You can get an insanely tight lock this way. I only had one screw that this failed with. That one broke off low enough to leave nothing exposed above the bottom board. For that one I just left it in and made sure to place the replacement screw slightly to the side so it would go into wood instead of hitting the old screw. [1] https://www.milwaukeetool.com/Products/Hand-Tools/Pliers/Locking-Pliers https://www.milwaukeetool.com/Products/Hand-Tools/Pliers/Loc... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4piwT_Z12uw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4piwT_Z12uw

jefftk 4y ago
> Unlike most locking pliers where the locking knob is designed to only be turned directly by hand, the Milwaukee locking knob has a hole through it meant to allow you to stick a metal rod such as a screwdriver through it and use that to get a lot more torque for turning the knob than you can get by hand [2]. You can get an insanely tight lock this way. Why not open the pliers, tighten the knob, then close the pliers again? You have lots of leverage in closing the pliers; do you need even more than that?
- tzs 4y ago
  I don't know if more than that is needed. I had never needed locking pliers before replacing those deck boards. Home Depot had several from Milwaukee and Husky, plus a couple from Stanley. The Milwaukee ones generally had better customer ratings, and some YouTube reviews I found liked them and mentioned the tightness of the lock you can get due to the screwdriver slot. I couldn't think of any situation where that would be a hindrance and it might be helpful in some situations, so I went with them. Also, the "t" in "tzs" stands for "Tim" so I was sort of obligated to go for more power. :-)