4 ms·

I think people don't care about it because at the end of the day all this mind bogglingly complex stuff just exists skim money off a transaction that should ide

by Teever 4y ago

I think people don't care about it because at the end of the day all this mind bogglingly complex stuff just exists skim money off a transaction that should ideally be done between two individuals -- a buyer and a seller. Uber is nothing more than a rent-seeking middle man and no one cares about how complicated their rent-seeking activities are behind the curtain. Why can my ISP string up fiber optic all over my city and put routers and switches or whatever in boxes that can survive all kinds of inclement weather and end up charging me $100 a month for gigabit internet? Isn't that a much harder business than Uber?

menzoic 4y ago
>Uber is nothing more than a rent-seeking middle man and no one cares about how complicated their rent-seeking activities are behind the curtain The term rent-seeking gets thrown around a lot more lately, mostly from the web3 crowd. Most times its not used right. It's only rent seeking if the middleman isn't providing any value. Otherwise they're just getting paid for providing a service that people value.... Think about what you're saying. You don't "care how complex it is". Well that complexity determines whether or not it is rent seeking. You say ideally a transaction between two individuals. The major problem being solved here is finding the two best matched individuals based on their current location and destination over time. You need some system to aid this discovery no matter what. Here's the definition of rent-seeking: Rent-seeking is the effort to increase one's share of existing wealth without creating new wealth. Rent-seeking results in reduced economic efficiency through misallocation of resources, reduced wealth creation, lost government revenue, heightened income inequality, and potential national decline
- Teever 4y ago
  > reduced economic efficiency through misallocation of resources Uber and Lyft generate 70 percent more pollution than trips they displace[0] >reduced wealth creation Uber and Lyft are pushing drivers into poverty[1] > lost government revenue How Uber dodges paying tax in Canada[2] I don't care about the complexity of the the black box algorithm that Uber implements because I know what purpose it serves. The whole purpose of Uber is to make people entirely dependent on it by driving out alternatives like local cab companies and public transit through low prices subsidizes by Saudi money. I think it's great that Uber has forced cab companies to modernize and make their services more convenient but we both know what will happen if Uber gets a stranglehold on this market. You'll see jacked up prices for the captive market and declining service. This is how it always goes. [0] https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/25/21152512/uber-lyft-climate-change-emissions-pollution-ucs-study https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/25/21152512/uber-lyft-climat... [1] https://www.nj.com/opinion/2020/03/uber-and-lyft-are-pushing-drivers-into-poverty-opinion.html https://www.nj.com/opinion/2020/03/uber-and-lyft-are-pushing... [2] https://troymedia.com/technology/how-uber-dodges-paying-taxes-in-canada/ https://troymedia.com/technology/how-uber-dodges-paying-taxe...
  - addicted 4y ago
    Uber is best understood as a legal entrepreneur. Their skill lies entirely in breaking laws in a way that allows them to make more money than the fines they pay. In addition to their legal entrepreneurism their next skill lies in hiding externalities. They push costs to everyone else (drivers, riders, cities by massively increasing traffic, everyone who lives in those cities who have to deal with the noise and pollution of the additional traffic, etc) without having to bear any of it themselves.
    - meheleventyone 4y ago
      Sounds more like a parasite.
    - ejb999 4y ago
      >>Their skill lies entirely in breaking laws in a way that allows them to make more money than the fines they pay. Almost like AirBnB's model.
al_mandi 4y ago
Uber facilitates matching and routing and many other things. Don't you think that those features are worthy of paying for them?
- pessimizer 4y ago
  Isn't that just a few well understood algorithms and the acres of servers to run them? Is Uber coming up with new math?
- Teever 4y ago
  Sure, but that's money that is being taken out of my community and I would prefer that it stay here. Why do I need to involve a middle man from another country to facilitate a trip across town?
  - sushid 4y ago
    Then ride a cab? You're involving a middle man because they do a pretty damn good job taking you from point A to point B. It's the same reason you might want to use Amazon to buy something and "take money out of your community."
    - Teever 4y ago
      I take the bus, but I noticed lately that I haven't seen a cab in my city in months, whereas pre Uber I used to see dozens of them a day. For better or worse I think that Uber destroyed the cab industry in my city. Either way, I still think that we could have some sort of decentralized ride sharing platform that doesn't suck so much money out of local communities. I think that this would be better for communities and therefore society a a whole.
      - cinntaile 4y ago
        Local cabs need to innovate and provide an app with similar features. If they do that, they'll probably stay in business. If not... Good luck.
sushid 4y ago
How is Uber anything similar to a utilities company? Those companies are rent seeking because they provide an essential service in a de-facto monopoly. Uber literally created the demand from both sides of the marketplace while facing steep competition from incumbents. There are many things wrong with them but how can you criticize them for rent seeking? They're one of the most capitalistic companies around and their origin story is literally the opposite of rent seeking.

by Teever 4y ago

menzoic 4y ago

>Uber is nothing more than a rent-seeking middle man and no one cares about how complicated their rent-seeking activities are behind the curtain The term rent-seeking gets thrown around a lot more lately, mostly from the web3 crowd. Most times its not used right. It's only rent seeking if the middleman isn't providing any value. Otherwise they're just getting paid for providing a service that people value.... Think about what you're saying. You don't "care how complex it is". Well that complexity determines whether or not it is rent seeking. You say ideally a transaction between two individuals. The major problem being solved here is finding the two best matched individuals based on their current location and destination over time. You need some system to aid this discovery no matter what. Here's the definition of rent-seeking: Rent-seeking is the effort to increase one's share of existing wealth without creating new wealth. Rent-seeking results in reduced economic efficiency through misallocation of resources, reduced wealth creation, lost government revenue, heightened income inequality, and potential national decline

Teever 4y ago
> reduced economic efficiency through misallocation of resources Uber and Lyft generate 70 percent more pollution than trips they displace[0] >reduced wealth creation Uber and Lyft are pushing drivers into poverty[1] > lost government revenue How Uber dodges paying tax in Canada[2] I don't care about the complexity of the the black box algorithm that Uber implements because I know what purpose it serves. The whole purpose of Uber is to make people entirely dependent on it by driving out alternatives like local cab companies and public transit through low prices subsidizes by Saudi money. I think it's great that Uber has forced cab companies to modernize and make their services more convenient but we both know what will happen if Uber gets a stranglehold on this market. You'll see jacked up prices for the captive market and declining service. This is how it always goes. [0] https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/25/21152512/uber-lyft-climate-change-emissions-pollution-ucs-study https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/25/21152512/uber-lyft-climat... [1] https://www.nj.com/opinion/2020/03/uber-and-lyft-are-pushing-drivers-into-poverty-opinion.html https://www.nj.com/opinion/2020/03/uber-and-lyft-are-pushing... [2] https://troymedia.com/technology/how-uber-dodges-paying-taxes-in-canada/ https://troymedia.com/technology/how-uber-dodges-paying-taxe...
- addicted 4y ago
  Uber is best understood as a legal entrepreneur. Their skill lies entirely in breaking laws in a way that allows them to make more money than the fines they pay. In addition to their legal entrepreneurism their next skill lies in hiding externalities. They push costs to everyone else (drivers, riders, cities by massively increasing traffic, everyone who lives in those cities who have to deal with the noise and pollution of the additional traffic, etc) without having to bear any of it themselves.
  - meheleventyone 4y ago
    Sounds more like a parasite.
  - ejb999 4y ago
    >>Their skill lies entirely in breaking laws in a way that allows them to make more money than the fines they pay. Almost like AirBnB's model.

al_mandi 4y ago

Uber facilitates matching and routing and many other things. Don't you think that those features are worthy of paying for them?

pessimizer 4y ago
Isn't that just a few well understood algorithms and the acres of servers to run them? Is Uber coming up with new math?
Teever 4y ago
Sure, but that's money that is being taken out of my community and I would prefer that it stay here. Why do I need to involve a middle man from another country to facilitate a trip across town?
- sushid 4y ago
  Then ride a cab? You're involving a middle man because they do a pretty damn good job taking you from point A to point B. It's the same reason you might want to use Amazon to buy something and "take money out of your community."
  - Teever 4y ago
    I take the bus, but I noticed lately that I haven't seen a cab in my city in months, whereas pre Uber I used to see dozens of them a day. For better or worse I think that Uber destroyed the cab industry in my city. Either way, I still think that we could have some sort of decentralized ride sharing platform that doesn't suck so much money out of local communities. I think that this would be better for communities and therefore society a a whole.
    - cinntaile 4y ago
      Local cabs need to innovate and provide an app with similar features. If they do that, they'll probably stay in business. If not... Good luck.

sushid 4y ago

How is Uber anything similar to a utilities company? Those companies are rent seeking because they provide an essential service in a de-facto monopoly. Uber literally created the demand from both sides of the marketplace while facing steep competition from incumbents. There are many things wrong with them but how can you criticize them for rent seeking? They're one of the most capitalistic companies around and their origin story is literally the opposite of rent seeking.