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I’ve switched 100% to Robertson for woodworking and Hex for electronics/metal/3dprinting/etc. As far as I’m concerned Phillips are as outdated as flathead screw

by sen 4y ago

I’ve switched 100% to Robertson for woodworking and Hex for electronics/metal/3dprinting/etc. As far as I’m concerned Phillips are as outdated as flathead screws and ridiculous to consider in anything new. I generally even replace existing Phillips screws around the house with Hex equivalents as I come across them, just so future maintenance is more reliable and easier. Phillips was the VHS to Robertsons BETA, yet Robertson has finally gotten a second go at it and seems to finally be winning. Our hardware shops have them in every size and use case now (alongside hex).

frosted-flakes 4y ago
In Atlanta? I'm surprised to hear that, because I was never able to find Robertson when I lived in the US a few years ago. Robertson is about all you can get here in Canada, but certain screws are also available in Torx (only the GRK brand though).
- 01100011 4y ago
  I've been buying square drive screws(mostly woodworking) for decades in California. Definitely my favorite type.
- michaelcampbell 4y ago
  Only place I've found Robertson in the US (also Atlanta) is "online", which is arguably "not in the US". They are way better than Phillips but you can get Torx now at "big box retail" stores so that's what I use now. I have baggies of the robertsons stored...somewhere.
FractalParadigm 4y ago
As a Canadian it still blows me away that Robertson isn't as ubiquitous everywhere else as it is here. They are far superior to Phillips in every way.
- briHass 4y ago
  As someone in the US, Robertson is better than Phillips, but Torx/star is superior in every way. Besides the better torque with Torx, the bits don't get mangled as quickly. My experience with Robertson, where it is the default for pocket-hole screws, is the bit corners get rounded and it then starts to really destroy the fasteners. It's not always easy to determine when a Robertson bit should be thrown away. In contrast I've had star bits that had multiple chipped edges but it still grabs. Instead of rounding, those bits usually chip off, so it's pretty clear when the bit is junk.
  - abakker 4y ago
    Full agree. Torx is the best. T25 and larger bits are essentially indestructible.
    - jacquesm 4y ago
      Spot on, I can go through box after box of screws with a Torx bit without it breaking or even wearing visibly. You do want to make sure you have some pressure on it.
      - eurasiantiger 4y ago
        Anything smaller than T3 is just asking for trouble, though. I guess they can be seen as tamper evident :)
        abakker 4y ago
        fair enough, but I guess anything under T3 equivalent in any drive system is pretty damn difficult. What do you use? The smallest Torx i've used is T5, and even that was very dicey.
  - londons_explore 4y ago
    Bits only get chipped when torque is still being applied as the driver is being removed. (Or inserted) Tool makers could easily fix that problem with a sensor that detects pressure on the bit, and if it drops to zero, stop the tool.
Brian_K_White 4y ago
As the article explains several times: Self. Centering. For manufacturing, it's a non-trivial property. For manual work, also as the article said multiple times, yes roberson and torx are fine, even better.
redox99 4y ago
Why not torx?
- unixhero 4y ago
  Hex is torx Wait... Isn't it?
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    No, definitely not. Though sometimes (in a pinch, and very bad practice) you may be able to use a slightly oversized hex bit to drive a Torx fastener.
  - kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
    Torx is hexalobular. Not the same as hexagonal Allen. You can wedge some sizes of wrench into the wrong fastener but it's a good way to strip the heads.
  - solardev 4y ago
    Hex is a 6 sided polygon, torx is more like a sheriff's star. https://www.wonkeedonkeetools.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Heaxagon-and-Torx-Keys-4-788x525.jpg https://www.wonkeedonkeetools.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/... You can sometimes fit one bit into the other but that's just a coincidence and you'll probably strip one or the other if you do it hard enough.
jacquesm 4y ago
Are you in Canada? I haven't seen Robertson anywhere else but in .ca.

by sen 4y ago

frosted-flakes 4y ago

In Atlanta? I'm surprised to hear that, because I was never able to find Robertson when I lived in the US a few years ago. Robertson is about all you can get here in Canada, but certain screws are also available in Torx (only the GRK brand though).

01100011 4y ago
I've been buying square drive screws(mostly woodworking) for decades in California. Definitely my favorite type.
michaelcampbell 4y ago
Only place I've found Robertson in the US (also Atlanta) is "online", which is arguably "not in the US". They are way better than Phillips but you can get Torx now at "big box retail" stores so that's what I use now. I have baggies of the robertsons stored...somewhere.

FractalParadigm 4y ago

As a Canadian it still blows me away that Robertson isn't as ubiquitous everywhere else as it is here. They are far superior to Phillips in every way.

briHass 4y ago
As someone in the US, Robertson is better than Phillips, but Torx/star is superior in every way. Besides the better torque with Torx, the bits don't get mangled as quickly. My experience with Robertson, where it is the default for pocket-hole screws, is the bit corners get rounded and it then starts to really destroy the fasteners. It's not always easy to determine when a Robertson bit should be thrown away. In contrast I've had star bits that had multiple chipped edges but it still grabs. Instead of rounding, those bits usually chip off, so it's pretty clear when the bit is junk.
- abakker 4y ago
  Full agree. Torx is the best. T25 and larger bits are essentially indestructible.
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    Spot on, I can go through box after box of screws with a Torx bit without it breaking or even wearing visibly. You do want to make sure you have some pressure on it.
    - eurasiantiger 4y ago
      Anything smaller than T3 is just asking for trouble, though. I guess they can be seen as tamper evident :)
      - abakker 4y ago
        fair enough, but I guess anything under T3 equivalent in any drive system is pretty damn difficult. What do you use? The smallest Torx i've used is T5, and even that was very dicey.
- londons_explore 4y ago
  Bits only get chipped when torque is still being applied as the driver is being removed. (Or inserted) Tool makers could easily fix that problem with a sensor that detects pressure on the bit, and if it drops to zero, stop the tool.

Brian_K_White 4y ago

As the article explains several times: Self. Centering. For manufacturing, it's a non-trivial property. For manual work, also as the article said multiple times, yes roberson and torx are fine, even better.

redox99 4y ago

Why not torx?

unixhero 4y ago
Hex is torx Wait... Isn't it?
- jacquesm 4y ago
  No, definitely not. Though sometimes (in a pinch, and very bad practice) you may be able to use a slightly oversized hex bit to drive a Torx fastener.
- kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
  Torx is hexalobular. Not the same as hexagonal Allen. You can wedge some sizes of wrench into the wrong fastener but it's a good way to strip the heads.
- solardev 4y ago
  Hex is a 6 sided polygon, torx is more like a sheriff's star. https://www.wonkeedonkeetools.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Heaxagon-and-Torx-Keys-4-788x525.jpg https://www.wonkeedonkeetools.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/... You can sometimes fit one bit into the other but that's just a coincidence and you'll probably strip one or the other if you do it hard enough.

jacquesm 4y ago

Are you in Canada? I haven't seen Robertson anywhere else but in .ca.