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While Ephesians 5:21 does say that, verse 25 says: “Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her” And verse 28 says:

While Ephesians 5:21 does say that, verse 25 says: “Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her” And verse 28 says: “In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.” The ultimate idea of these verses is better expressed in Ephesians 5:31, which says: “However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.”

krapp 4y ago
Yes but you'll notice, only one side has to submit. Both sides have to love, but the power dynamic, and thus autonomy, is clearly not equal. For that matter, Paul also told slavemasters to treat their slaves well, and told slaves to obey their masters, which is exactly the dynamic he describes between men and women. And then there's First Timothy... "But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint." I mean, you can insist these verses have been misinterpreted or misconstrued, and that because early Christianity had women in prominent positions obviously such views weren't universal, but it doesn't change the fact that women have been oppressed, and literally tortured and beaten to death over millennia because of them.
- swearwolf 4y ago
  Yes, the ultimate power imbalance is still a big one. Having grown up in a Christian house that subscribed to this model, and having seen how that tends to play out, I’m no fan of it either. I’ve also seen churches divided over the issue of women in leadership roles, which is…I don’t even know how to begin to describe how bizarre that is to witness. In my later life I’ve become a Christian again but the inevitability of running into this line of thinking, as well as the homophobic “clobber verses” makes it very uncomfortable. So much of even the New Testament seems contradictory to the way Christ lived and taught, and that’s leaving aside the ugly influence of American conservatism on the Church. God created us in His own image, and we decided to return the favor.

krapp 4y ago

Yes but you'll notice, only one side has to submit. Both sides have to love, but the power dynamic, and thus autonomy, is clearly not equal. For that matter, Paul also told slavemasters to treat their slaves well, and told slaves to obey their masters, which is exactly the dynamic he describes between men and women. And then there's First Timothy... "But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint." I mean, you can insist these verses have been misinterpreted or misconstrued, and that because early Christianity had women in prominent positions obviously such views weren't universal, but it doesn't change the fact that women have been oppressed, and literally tortured and beaten to death over millennia because of them.

swearwolf 4y ago
Yes, the ultimate power imbalance is still a big one. Having grown up in a Christian house that subscribed to this model, and having seen how that tends to play out, I’m no fan of it either. I’ve also seen churches divided over the issue of women in leadership roles, which is…I don’t even know how to begin to describe how bizarre that is to witness. In my later life I’ve become a Christian again but the inevitability of running into this line of thinking, as well as the homophobic “clobber verses” makes it very uncomfortable. So much of even the New Testament seems contradictory to the way Christ lived and taught, and that’s leaving aside the ugly influence of American conservatism on the Church. God created us in His own image, and we decided to return the favor.