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> the second is pretty useless and generally tired. Is it really useless though? I wish the front end community tried to make existing things better instead o

> the second is pretty useless and generally tired. Is it really useless though? I wish the front end community tried to make existing things better instead of reinventing the wheel every year and causing immense fragmentation, especially for something like the build toolchain.

hardwaregeek 4y ago
Fragmentation is political though. You can’t really solve this issue unless someone or something is forcing people to coalesce around one tool. Webpack was great but it had noticeable flaws that allowed tools like esbuild/rollup/swc to gain market share. And it’s not like webpack can easily do what esbuild did, I.e. rewrite in multithreaded Go. If you can propose a way to get everybody on the same tool, by all means, let’s do it. What annoys me about this discourse is that anybody in the front end world knows this is an issue. People aren’t contributing anything by complaining about it.
gedy 4y ago
Why can't the "back end community" agree on a single server side language and database and compiler? Gee so much churn!
- monkey_monkey 4y ago
  We both know those aren't even close to the same thing. All this grunt->gulp->webpack->vite->'the inevitable replacement for vite' are really achieving is finding slightly different ways of doing the same thing.
  - mikewhy 4y ago
    "all this monoliths->microservices are really achieving is finding slightly different ways of doing the same thing" "all this python->go are really achieving is finding slightly different ways of doing the same thing" "all this relational db->document stores are really achieving is finding slightly different ways of doing the same thing"
    - monkey_monkey 4y ago
      Once again, we both know those aren't even close to being the same. Your attempts at snidey mimicry just expose the poverty of the point you think you're making.
      - mikewhy 4y ago
        Awwww but you're so close to getting the point. Hopefully one day.
      - strokirk 4y ago
        As a backend developer, I’d say that it is a very apt comparison to your point. The backend and infrastructure space also has a lot of new projects solving old problems being released.
  - bilalq 4y ago
    All this make->ant->maven->gradle->'the inevitable replacement for gradle' are really achieving is finding slightly different ways of doing the same thing.
    - monkey_monkey 4y ago
      I'm glad you agree with me.
      - woojoo666 4y ago
        As another commenter pointed out [1], backend "reinventions" don't seem to receive the same criticisms, so in general there really does seem to be a double standard [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31970112 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31970112
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
wonnage 4y ago
> I wish the front end community tried to make existing things better instead of reinventing the wheel every year and causing immense fragmentation, especially for something like the build toolchain. This is simply a false statement. Chrome increases its dominance every year, which actually makes it a lot easier to write frontend code, but that isn't necessarily "better". In other areas: - Typescript has been a huge boon to the ecosystem and is widely adopted - Babel is the standard for transpiling code and has allowed for all these compile-to-JS projects to exist - ESBuild/SWC exist if you want to do things faster and less flexibly, but they're still a minor part of the ecosystem - React has existed for nearly a decade and continues to enjoy regular updates and an enormous community

hardwaregeek 4y ago

Fragmentation is political though. You can’t really solve this issue unless someone or something is forcing people to coalesce around one tool. Webpack was great but it had noticeable flaws that allowed tools like esbuild/rollup/swc to gain market share. And it’s not like webpack can easily do what esbuild did, I.e. rewrite in multithreaded Go. If you can propose a way to get everybody on the same tool, by all means, let’s do it. What annoys me about this discourse is that anybody in the front end world knows this is an issue. People aren’t contributing anything by complaining about it.

gedy 4y ago

Why can't the "back end community" agree on a single server side language and database and compiler? Gee so much churn!

monkey_monkey 4y ago
We both know those aren't even close to the same thing. All this grunt->gulp->webpack->vite->'the inevitable replacement for vite' are really achieving is finding slightly different ways of doing the same thing.
- mikewhy 4y ago
  "all this monoliths->microservices are really achieving is finding slightly different ways of doing the same thing" "all this python->go are really achieving is finding slightly different ways of doing the same thing" "all this relational db->document stores are really achieving is finding slightly different ways of doing the same thing"
  - monkey_monkey 4y ago
    Once again, we both know those aren't even close to being the same. Your attempts at snidey mimicry just expose the poverty of the point you think you're making.
    - mikewhy 4y ago
      Awwww but you're so close to getting the point. Hopefully one day.
    - strokirk 4y ago
      As a backend developer, I’d say that it is a very apt comparison to your point. The backend and infrastructure space also has a lot of new projects solving old problems being released.
- bilalq 4y ago
  All this make->ant->maven->gradle->'the inevitable replacement for gradle' are really achieving is finding slightly different ways of doing the same thing.
  - monkey_monkey 4y ago
    I'm glad you agree with me.
    - woojoo666 4y ago
      As another commenter pointed out [1], backend "reinventions" don't seem to receive the same criticisms, so in general there really does seem to be a double standard [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31970112 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31970112
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

wonnage 4y ago

> I wish the front end community tried to make existing things better instead of reinventing the wheel every year and causing immense fragmentation, especially for something like the build toolchain. This is simply a false statement. Chrome increases its dominance every year, which actually makes it a lot easier to write frontend code, but that isn't necessarily "better". In other areas: - Typescript has been a huge boon to the ecosystem and is widely adopted - Babel is the standard for transpiling code and has allowed for all these compile-to-JS projects to exist - ESBuild/SWC exist if you want to do things faster and less flexibly, but they're still a minor part of the ecosystem - React has existed for nearly a decade and continues to enjoy regular updates and an enormous community