4 ms·

Speak for yourself! A partner is exactly what I want. I don't need a cook or a housekeeper; if I did, I'd hire one. I want to be part of a team of equals, or I'

Speak for yourself! A partner is exactly what I want. I don't need a cook or a housekeeper; if I did, I'd hire one. I want to be part of a team of equals, or I'd rather be single. I am not speaking hypothetically. It was a real problem for me when my ex-wife lost her job, gave up looking for another, and just... turned herself into a housewife. I could not relate to her anymore. This was not the issue which ultimately broke our marriage, but it certainly didn't help.

bergenty 4y ago
You don’t have to be a housewife to fulfill the other criteria.
- marssaxman 4y ago
  You appear to be mistaking your personal preferences for universal human ideals. This is an easy mistake to make, as the things we want feel obvious and natural; it can be hard to imagine not wanting them, or wanting something contrary. It's OK to want whatever it is you want, but we're all different, and we really do want different things.
  - bergenty 4y ago
    I don’t think so. I feel like you may be in a bubble. I travel a lot for work (within the US) and that seems to be the vast majority.
    - marssaxman 4y ago
      Of course I am - intentionally so! Who cares? You made a sweepingly broad assertion about the nature of male desire, which was simplistic and inadequate. I demonstrated as much by describing my own preferences, as several others here have done. The nature of my social bubble is irrelevant, because I made no claim beyond the bounds of my personal experience. You're in a bubble, too, whether you see its boundaries or not. In order to speak meaningfully about what the "vast majority" of people want, we would need some actual research.
actfrench 4y ago
I really appreciate you speaking up. It means a lot to women to see men want more than an indentured servant/sex worker. I'm really sorry to hear about your troubles with your ex-wife. I can imagine it could be really depressing/invalidating to lose a job and not know where to turn. Luckily, as a single person, we don't really have the option of not working so there's an energy and force behind finding a vocation. I sometimes think in a different reality, I might enjoy teaching and raising children while my husband worked. It's a ton of work though and you don't really get any down time, which is hard. I did this before when I was dating someone who had a son, but I also worked. I still found it very fulfilling. When I was a teacher, I always found the kids who were the most grounded were the ones who had a stay-at-home dad. I think it's nice for kids when one parent is there just for the child rearing. Some random thoughts and musings, but it's really really tough when both people don't have interests outside the marriage. I'm sorry you and your ex had to go through this.
em-bee 4y ago
I could not relate to her anymore i don't want to analyze or criticize your feelings, but since i may face a similar situation, i'd like to explore how to avoid that for myself. i do want my wife to be an equal too, but how can she be if she is not working like me? a couple of thoughts come to mind: (these are random ideas, i don't know if they all make sense) there is a school of thought that says that housework should be treated like any other respectable fulltime job. like in a startup, there are fun tasks and boring gruntwork. i am doing the programming work for the customers, which brings in the money and my businesspartner is managing the accounting, invoices and takes care of the office. we are saving the expense for a janitor, so we do cleanup ourselves, and since i am busy on the computer, it's mostly done by my partner (i remember reading about a CEO who said being a janitor was part of his duties) so to translate that to a family, like a business, there are a number of things that need to be done. someone may be focusing on doing the work that brings in the money, and the other person is doing all those other things. the point is, all those tasks are equally important for the success of a business as they are for a family. we would not consider a CEO to be less valued than the CTO, so why should the housewife be considered unequal to her money earning husband? we are a team, where each of us is valued the same, but that doesn't mean we have to split the work equally too. instead everyone contributes according to their ability. i think what your problem may have been that you simply were unprepared for the change and didn't know how to deal with it. i don't know how i am going to deal with that either, but at least i know it will most likely be happening so i'll do my best to prepare. a few more thoughts of what could help to achive equality when one partner is not working: make decisions together. especially about spending money. care for each others goals and interests outside of work and housework. in other words, take each other seriously, regardless of what the other is contributing. treat the housework as enabling your outside work, just like the CEO enables the CTO.

bergenty 4y ago

You don’t have to be a housewife to fulfill the other criteria.

marssaxman 4y ago
You appear to be mistaking your personal preferences for universal human ideals. This is an easy mistake to make, as the things we want feel obvious and natural; it can be hard to imagine not wanting them, or wanting something contrary. It's OK to want whatever it is you want, but we're all different, and we really do want different things.
- bergenty 4y ago
  I don’t think so. I feel like you may be in a bubble. I travel a lot for work (within the US) and that seems to be the vast majority.
  - marssaxman 4y ago
    Of course I am - intentionally so! Who cares? You made a sweepingly broad assertion about the nature of male desire, which was simplistic and inadequate. I demonstrated as much by describing my own preferences, as several others here have done. The nature of my social bubble is irrelevant, because I made no claim beyond the bounds of my personal experience. You're in a bubble, too, whether you see its boundaries or not. In order to speak meaningfully about what the "vast majority" of people want, we would need some actual research.

actfrench 4y ago

I really appreciate you speaking up. It means a lot to women to see men want more than an indentured servant/sex worker. I'm really sorry to hear about your troubles with your ex-wife. I can imagine it could be really depressing/invalidating to lose a job and not know where to turn. Luckily, as a single person, we don't really have the option of not working so there's an energy and force behind finding a vocation. I sometimes think in a different reality, I might enjoy teaching and raising children while my husband worked. It's a ton of work though and you don't really get any down time, which is hard. I did this before when I was dating someone who had a son, but I also worked. I still found it very fulfilling. When I was a teacher, I always found the kids who were the most grounded were the ones who had a stay-at-home dad. I think it's nice for kids when one parent is there just for the child rearing. Some random thoughts and musings, but it's really really tough when both people don't have interests outside the marriage. I'm sorry you and your ex had to go through this.

em-bee 4y ago

I could not relate to her anymore i don't want to analyze or criticize your feelings, but since i may face a similar situation, i'd like to explore how to avoid that for myself. i do want my wife to be an equal too, but how can she be if she is not working like me? a couple of thoughts come to mind: (these are random ideas, i don't know if they all make sense) there is a school of thought that says that housework should be treated like any other respectable fulltime job. like in a startup, there are fun tasks and boring gruntwork. i am doing the programming work for the customers, which brings in the money and my businesspartner is managing the accounting, invoices and takes care of the office. we are saving the expense for a janitor, so we do cleanup ourselves, and since i am busy on the computer, it's mostly done by my partner (i remember reading about a CEO who said being a janitor was part of his duties) so to translate that to a family, like a business, there are a number of things that need to be done. someone may be focusing on doing the work that brings in the money, and the other person is doing all those other things. the point is, all those tasks are equally important for the success of a business as they are for a family. we would not consider a CEO to be less valued than the CTO, so why should the housewife be considered unequal to her money earning husband? we are a team, where each of us is valued the same, but that doesn't mean we have to split the work equally too. instead everyone contributes according to their ability. i think what your problem may have been that you simply were unprepared for the change and didn't know how to deal with it. i don't know how i am going to deal with that either, but at least i know it will most likely be happening so i'll do my best to prepare. a few more thoughts of what could help to achive equality when one partner is not working: make decisions together. especially about spending money. care for each others goals and interests outside of work and housework. in other words, take each other seriously, regardless of what the other is contributing. treat the housework as enabling your outside work, just like the CEO enables the CTO.