4 ms·

I can't say much about mindfulness meditation specifically, but I've been practicing Catholic (specifically, Iesuit) meditation weekly for over a year now. Also

by akavel 4y ago

I can't say much about mindfulness meditation specifically, but I've been practicing Catholic (specifically, Iesuit) meditation weekly for over a year now. Also, after my first experiences with it I talked with a friend who tried some non-Christian meditation a few times (can't recall if specifically Buddhist or "secular") - he seemed to say there are apparently a lot of similarities between those (but I didn't explore the topic further, or whether they have common historical roots or not). So, can at least try throwing in a few thoughts being kinda practitioner. So, in shortest words, what definitely surprised me most was that there seems to be something to it. I went to the first Iesuit "retreat" very sceptic and with an attitude basically of: "meh, I'm a Catholic, so by this logic, praying isn't the worst thing I could waste a ~week on". Trying to summarize most succintly and "secularly", the gist of it for me is, that during meditation, I tend to get thoughts in my mind that I just didn't see coming. It's not any kind of "voice". Those feel 100% like my regular thoughts; just the conclusions and ideas I get from them are quite often completely surprising and unexpected to me - if in subtle ways and generally on topic of "how to live life", what's important, etc. Interestingly to me, I find that those thougts tend to align with and seem to help me understand the Bible. Also what I found very surprising, is that through meditation of the Bible fragments and also trying to meditate scenes from my life that might be relevant, I seem to be finding new meanings in the Bible. That was a huge surprise to me, given how being a Catholic long time, I heard a lot of those quotes tons of time already, and heard them interpreted various ways tons of times, and my general opinion before was that there's not really much more that I could find there, and was rather sceptic towards then notion of people finding deep meaning in Bible by studying it more. So much sceptic before, some suddenly seem understand now, very unexpected and surprise. One "sceptic/physicist" thought I tend to be having on that, is basically kind of reminding me of "simulated annealing" and leaving local maxima in search for more global ones. Which, even if true (seems a huge simplification, given we still don't really know much about mind, and basically zero about consciousness), doesn't oppose faith to me personally. If I believe that God created the world, I also believe he created physics etc. the way He wanted them, so "trivially" He created them in a way to make meditation & simulated annealing work like that. But that's probably not super interesting to you :) So, just my $0.02, in case that could help you in any way.

aristofun 4y ago
Great comment. Thanks. Any particular Jesuit meditation books, retreats you can recommend?
- mdp2021 4y ago
  > books About that, I can tell you that the material may be very scarce. Literature from other traditions may be many orders of magnitude more abundant - although possibly also noisy.
- akavel 4y ago
  Hmh; so, generally, the retreat is called something like "Ignatian Spiritual Exercises". I did it in Poland, my home country & language, so don't have data for any other country/language, but I'd say maybe try contacting your Friendly Local Jesuit Priest (tm) ;) As to books, I bought a few after my most recent retreat, but haven't really tried reading any one yet :P Um, there's the original book by St. Ignatius, but it's from a very different time and mentality, so be warned; the priests themselves emphasize this disclaimer often, and they certainly refined the method over the few centuries; though some quotes were timeless enough that they're still used verbatim. I guess you could maybe also try researching the topic on the internet, but I have no idea if you'll be able to easily find anything not aimed at advertising to the faithful and emphasizing this aspect. That said, now that I think, if you'd be able to find some actual materials for Jesuit priests (if such even exist - but again, try asking your friendly neighborhood Jesuit maybe?), those could be interesting; I seem to have found the guys very down to earth, and they clearly had psychological and pedagogical background - at least those leading the retreat. I don't feel they would try to be hiding anything, just probably assuming nobody sane is interested in studying the stuff if not assigned to be a retreat leader. Again, assuming such materials actually exist outside seminary lecture notes. But given that IIUC every (Caholic) priest is mandated to undergo the Exercises during their education, I would guess literature like that might exist. But you might find more if you try to research yourself vs. me randomly speculating any more, given that I don't seem to really care too much about that as of now :P
mdp2021 4y ago
> just the conclusions and ideas I get from them are quite often completely surprising and unexpected to me In this wording, what you seem to have found (recognized and acknowledge with surprise) is the internal state in which refined ideas are let emerge.

by akavel 4y ago

aristofun 4y ago

Great comment. Thanks. Any particular Jesuit meditation books, retreats you can recommend?

mdp2021 4y ago
> books About that, I can tell you that the material may be very scarce. Literature from other traditions may be many orders of magnitude more abundant - although possibly also noisy.
akavel 4y ago
Hmh; so, generally, the retreat is called something like "Ignatian Spiritual Exercises". I did it in Poland, my home country & language, so don't have data for any other country/language, but I'd say maybe try contacting your Friendly Local Jesuit Priest (tm) ;) As to books, I bought a few after my most recent retreat, but haven't really tried reading any one yet :P Um, there's the original book by St. Ignatius, but it's from a very different time and mentality, so be warned; the priests themselves emphasize this disclaimer often, and they certainly refined the method over the few centuries; though some quotes were timeless enough that they're still used verbatim. I guess you could maybe also try researching the topic on the internet, but I have no idea if you'll be able to easily find anything not aimed at advertising to the faithful and emphasizing this aspect. That said, now that I think, if you'd be able to find some actual materials for Jesuit priests (if such even exist - but again, try asking your friendly neighborhood Jesuit maybe?), those could be interesting; I seem to have found the guys very down to earth, and they clearly had psychological and pedagogical background - at least those leading the retreat. I don't feel they would try to be hiding anything, just probably assuming nobody sane is interested in studying the stuff if not assigned to be a retreat leader. Again, assuming such materials actually exist outside seminary lecture notes. But given that IIUC every (Caholic) priest is mandated to undergo the Exercises during their education, I would guess literature like that might exist. But you might find more if you try to research yourself vs. me randomly speculating any more, given that I don't seem to really care too much about that as of now :P

mdp2021 4y ago

> just the conclusions and ideas I get from them are quite often completely surprising and unexpected to me In this wording, what you seem to have found (recognized and acknowledge with surprise) is the internal state in which refined ideas are let emerge.