5 ms·

Operation Gunman – how the Soviets bugged IBM typewriters (2015)

222 points by mtmail 4y ago

dang 4y ago
Related: IBM Selectric Bug - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21947924 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21947924 - Jan 2020 (4 comments) Operation Gunman – how the Soviets bugged IBM typewriters (2015) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16246432 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16246432 - Jan 2018 (18 comments) Operation Gunman – how the Soviets bugged IBM typewriters - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13255334 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13255334 - Dec 2016 (9 comments) Selectric bug - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10773214 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10773214 - Dec 2015 (17 comments) Learning from the Enemy: The Gunman Project (2007) [pdf] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9954159 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9954159 - July 2015 (43 comments)
- rcurry 4y ago
  What was so impressive about all that was the level of technical ingenuity that went into it. I thought this one was pretty cool as well: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thing_(listening_device) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thing_(listening_device) If my memory is still holding up I think they also pulled off another passive bug in a State Department conference room one time but I can’t remember enough about it to find a reference online. It was the same deal though - short piece of wire attenuated to a certain frequency and they’d illuminate it with a microwave truck parked on the street.
  - kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
    They bugged some molding in 1999: https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/23/us/spyhunter-russia-bug-us-state-department-declassified/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/23/us/spyhunter-russia-bug-us-st...
bobowzki 4y ago
Cryptomuseum.com is such an amazing website.
- Cockbrand 4y ago
  How's that? I mean, it doesn't even mention bitcoin once /s
  - bryanrasmussen 4y ago
    That in itself is a source of amazement and wonder!
  - mshockwave 4y ago
    > doesn't even mention bitcoin once /s that's exactly the reason makes it awesome
  - bencollier49 4y ago
    I feel very sorry for people working in cryptography who've had their prefix stolen.
cs702 4y ago
So, back then, countries were going to extremes like retrofitting electronic typewriters with spying devices, and secretly placing them inside the offices of their enemies, so they could spy on their enemies. Nowadays, there's no need to do anything so extreme, because everyone everywhere is already carrying a supercomputer with a camera and a microphone, 24x7, and willingly agreeing to install and share a ridiculous amount of information with random apps!
- Agamus 4y ago
  Why in the name of science is this being downvoted?
- LaputanMachine 4y ago
  Nowadays, technology firms are going to the extremes like implementing virtual machines with a custom instruction set inside of PDF files [1], so they can sell exploits to governments who use them to spy on their enemies. I think not much has changed. Highly sophisticated spying activities are still happening in today's world. The advanced techniques required are very valuable, and are thus only used in cases where the desired info is valuable enough, and cannot be obtained through simpler means. Users voluntarily sharing "a ridiculous amount of information" are not the target group of today's sophisticated hacks, and were not the target group of the Selentric bug either. [1]: https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2021/12/a-deep-dive-into-nso-zero-click.html https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2021/12/a-deep-dive-i...
  - stavros 4y ago
    Users sharing "a ridiculous amount of information" are definitely not the target group, but it sure as hell is easier when your target is in that group. Nowadays you don't need to bug a Selectric, you just need to pay some ops person half a world away a few thousand to send you all the info you need.
  - peter_d_sherman 4y ago
    First of all, excellent link! Virtual machines with custom instruction sets -- seem to be a broader problem -- that they can apparently exist within a PDF file is one specific instance of this broader problem... A selected quote from the article linked: >"Short of not using a device, there is no way to prevent exploitation by a zero-click exploit; it's a weapon against which there is no defense." To the author of that article: Well, "short of not using it", that is! <g>
soufron 4y ago
This is such a good example of an ad-hoc technology - that most people dont even understand to exit. People usually believe that state agencies or powerful institutions and individuals will use the same technology that they are used to. But when a specific goal is in mind, it means new ideas, new stuff, new ad-hoc technologies.
- mrtksn 4y ago
  There are specialised tools in all kinds of industries that can be considered unconventional or even alien for by a regular consumer. Even things like industrial dishwashers are very different that the regular household ones. Most of these are not even custom made but simply designed for different needs alien to typical household needs. The spycraft gadgets, I believe, resemble industry-specialised tech. When you don need something custom there are engineers and companies that can build it for you.
MomoXenosaga 4y ago
Countries spying on eachother is what keeps them from going to war. Without it you are left guessing if your opponent is gearing up for war.
- birdyrooster 4y ago
  It also triggers wars (looks at FSB in Ukraine)
politelemon 4y ago
I wonder what the response was. I know they removed the devices, but not detailed us whether they did anything to mess up the listening stations, muddy the waters, that sort of thing. But then it could be, of itself, not responding was a response enough.
- elzbardico 4y ago
  Probably they used it to feed counter-intelligence. Hence, all the precautions to substitute the devices without alarming the soviets.
agumonkey 4y ago
This article is such an engineering joy to read. I love electromechanics.
- iancmceachern 4y ago
  Rf and magnetics are as close to magic as any field (pun intended) of engineering.
LaputanMachine 4y ago
The existence of the Selectric bug was mentioned in an issue of Popular Science from 1987 [1]. In the article, a typewriter salesman from New York correctly describes the working principle of the bug, even though the exact working principle of the bug was not publicly known at the time. The six metal bars as well as magnetic switches are mentioned. See the paragraph "Low-Tech bugging" at the bottom of page 87, as well as the subsequent paragraph "The cold (bugging) war" on page 88. [1]: https://books.google.com/books?id=mgAAAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA87#v=onepage&q&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=mgAAAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA87#v=one...
- TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
  Back when Popular Science was worth reading. Thanks for the link.
mhh__ 4y ago
MI5 were supposedly spying on the French in the 1950s by lifting cipher keys being typed with microphones through a wall
twoodfin 4y ago
With all the sophistication that went into uncovering and analyzing these bugs, it’s fairly surprising that the Selectrics weren’t secured during delivery or thoroughly inspected upon installation. Embassy typewriters seem like a natural vector for espionage but somehow weren’t previously perceived as such?
- bencollier49 4y ago
  Perhaps we see it as natural from a 21st century perspective. It's entirely possible that to people from back then, the thought process wasn't as obvious.

222 points by mtmail 4y ago

dang 4y ago

Related: IBM Selectric Bug - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21947924 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21947924 - Jan 2020 (4 comments) Operation Gunman – how the Soviets bugged IBM typewriters (2015) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16246432 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16246432 - Jan 2018 (18 comments) Operation Gunman – how the Soviets bugged IBM typewriters - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13255334 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13255334 - Dec 2016 (9 comments) Selectric bug - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10773214 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10773214 - Dec 2015 (17 comments) Learning from the Enemy: The Gunman Project (2007) [pdf] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9954159 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9954159 - July 2015 (43 comments)

rcurry 4y ago
What was so impressive about all that was the level of technical ingenuity that went into it. I thought this one was pretty cool as well: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thing_(listening_device) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thing_(listening_device) If my memory is still holding up I think they also pulled off another passive bug in a State Department conference room one time but I can’t remember enough about it to find a reference online. It was the same deal though - short piece of wire attenuated to a certain frequency and they’d illuminate it with a microwave truck parked on the street.
- kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
  They bugged some molding in 1999: https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/23/us/spyhunter-russia-bug-us-state-department-declassified/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/23/us/spyhunter-russia-bug-us-st...

bobowzki 4y ago

Cryptomuseum.com is such an amazing website.

Cockbrand 4y ago
How's that? I mean, it doesn't even mention bitcoin once /s
- bryanrasmussen 4y ago
  That in itself is a source of amazement and wonder!
- mshockwave 4y ago
  > doesn't even mention bitcoin once /s that's exactly the reason makes it awesome
- bencollier49 4y ago
  I feel very sorry for people working in cryptography who've had their prefix stolen.

cs702 4y ago

So, back then, countries were going to extremes like retrofitting electronic typewriters with spying devices, and secretly placing them inside the offices of their enemies, so they could spy on their enemies. Nowadays, there's no need to do anything so extreme, because everyone everywhere is already carrying a supercomputer with a camera and a microphone, 24x7, and willingly agreeing to install and share a ridiculous amount of information with random apps!

Agamus 4y ago
Why in the name of science is this being downvoted?
LaputanMachine 4y ago
Nowadays, technology firms are going to the extremes like implementing virtual machines with a custom instruction set inside of PDF files [1], so they can sell exploits to governments who use them to spy on their enemies. I think not much has changed. Highly sophisticated spying activities are still happening in today's world. The advanced techniques required are very valuable, and are thus only used in cases where the desired info is valuable enough, and cannot be obtained through simpler means. Users voluntarily sharing "a ridiculous amount of information" are not the target group of today's sophisticated hacks, and were not the target group of the Selentric bug either. [1]: https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2021/12/a-deep-dive-into-nso-zero-click.html https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2021/12/a-deep-dive-i...
- stavros 4y ago
  Users sharing "a ridiculous amount of information" are definitely not the target group, but it sure as hell is easier when your target is in that group. Nowadays you don't need to bug a Selectric, you just need to pay some ops person half a world away a few thousand to send you all the info you need.
- peter_d_sherman 4y ago
  First of all, excellent link! Virtual machines with custom instruction sets -- seem to be a broader problem -- that they can apparently exist within a PDF file is one specific instance of this broader problem... A selected quote from the article linked: >"Short of not using a device, there is no way to prevent exploitation by a zero-click exploit; it's a weapon against which there is no defense." To the author of that article: Well, "short of not using it", that is! <g>

soufron 4y ago

This is such a good example of an ad-hoc technology - that most people dont even understand to exit. People usually believe that state agencies or powerful institutions and individuals will use the same technology that they are used to. But when a specific goal is in mind, it means new ideas, new stuff, new ad-hoc technologies.

mrtksn 4y ago
There are specialised tools in all kinds of industries that can be considered unconventional or even alien for by a regular consumer. Even things like industrial dishwashers are very different that the regular household ones. Most of these are not even custom made but simply designed for different needs alien to typical household needs. The spycraft gadgets, I believe, resemble industry-specialised tech. When you don need something custom there are engineers and companies that can build it for you.

MomoXenosaga 4y ago

Countries spying on eachother is what keeps them from going to war. Without it you are left guessing if your opponent is gearing up for war.

birdyrooster 4y ago
It also triggers wars (looks at FSB in Ukraine)

politelemon 4y ago

I wonder what the response was. I know they removed the devices, but not detailed us whether they did anything to mess up the listening stations, muddy the waters, that sort of thing. But then it could be, of itself, not responding was a response enough.

elzbardico 4y ago
Probably they used it to feed counter-intelligence. Hence, all the precautions to substitute the devices without alarming the soviets.

agumonkey 4y ago

This article is such an engineering joy to read. I love electromechanics.

iancmceachern 4y ago
Rf and magnetics are as close to magic as any field (pun intended) of engineering.

LaputanMachine 4y ago

The existence of the Selectric bug was mentioned in an issue of Popular Science from 1987 [1]. In the article, a typewriter salesman from New York correctly describes the working principle of the bug, even though the exact working principle of the bug was not publicly known at the time. The six metal bars as well as magnetic switches are mentioned. See the paragraph "Low-Tech bugging" at the bottom of page 87, as well as the subsequent paragraph "The cold (bugging) war" on page 88. [1]: https://books.google.com/books?id=mgAAAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA87#v=onepage&q&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=mgAAAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA87#v=one...

TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
Back when Popular Science was worth reading. Thanks for the link.

mhh__ 4y ago

MI5 were supposedly spying on the French in the 1950s by lifting cipher keys being typed with microphones through a wall

twoodfin 4y ago

With all the sophistication that went into uncovering and analyzing these bugs, it’s fairly surprising that the Selectrics weren’t secured during delivery or thoroughly inspected upon installation. Embassy typewriters seem like a natural vector for espionage but somehow weren’t previously perceived as such?

bencollier49 4y ago
Perhaps we see it as natural from a 21st century perspective. It's entirely possible that to people from back then, the thought process wasn't as obvious.