7 ms·

New York gun bill requires 3 years of social media account vetting

29 points by daenz 4y ago

daenz 4y ago
Bill S51001 https://legislation.nysenate.gov/pdf/bills/2021/S51001 https://legislation.nysenate.gov/pdf/bills/2021/S51001
Pakdef 4y ago
anigbrowl 4y ago
Some of the proposed changes seem reasonable, like checking for lack of convictions and completion of firearms safety training. The social media requirement is poorly defined and the phrase which immediately springs to mind is 'void for vagueness.'
- KennyBlanken 4y ago
  People really need to understand that "bill filed" or "amendment filed" doesn't mean much, especially if it's just filed and not debated or voted on. Getting outraged over this sort of thing is silly because like you said, it'll never make it. Outlandish bills and amendments are filed all the time to let somebody say "see, I tried!" to their constituency a lobbyist. Or to give someone something to offer to drop in negotiation, or the other side something to object to and get as a concession ("see, those evil liberals wanted you to have to submit your facebook account!") This is all a big, carefully choreographed dance put on by the majority and minority leaders. The more junior the rep, the more likely whatever they're doing is directly whatever the party leadership wanted them to do, because they're desperate to get more power and influence. If they play along and they get better committee appointments, promises to give them actions they can take back to their district, pork, support in the next election...
  - daenz 4y ago
    >Getting outraged over this sort of thing is silly because like you said, it'll never make it. It was signed into law by Governor Hochul yesterday.[0] 0. https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-hochul-signs-landmark-legislation-strengthen-gun-laws-and-bolster-restrictions https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-hochul-signs-landm...
    - anigbrowl 4y ago
      Indeed - perhaps calling it a bill rather than a law in the headline caused people to assume it was inconsequential. I was looking ahead to likely challenges in court.
      - daenz 4y ago
        That's fair. To be honest, I didn't realize the bill was signed into law when I made the thread.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
chitowneats 4y ago
So if I genuinely don't use social media I wouldn't be able to own a gun in New York?
- gruez 4y ago
  hacker news probably counts as "social media" ;)
  - chitowneats 4y ago
    They'd deny me in a heartbeat based on this account.
    - timapplesauce 4y ago
      I think that's the point. The idea is to come up with every reason to deny people. It's a backdoor handgun ban unless you're wealthy and well connected enough to deserve one.
      - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
        If I were wealthy enough to pay my way in I'd be really ticked off at all the other requirements.
        MonkeyMalarky 4y ago
        Start farming a bunch of aggressively mundane and neutral accounts now. They'll be worth something in 3 years!
casual8afan 4y ago
The NY legislature just wants to be slapped down by the SCOTUS again… There needs to be some type of blowback for this government waste.
car_analogy 4y ago
- zrail 4y ago
  Teachers are already subject to fairly stringent background checks before they are allowed to teach.
  - car_analogy 4y ago
    Including social media account vetting? Because [1] doesn't mention it, and there's a monumental difference between a criminal history check, and forcing one to deanonymize all of one's 1st Amendment protected speech from the past 3 years. [1] https://www.backgroundchecks.com/blog/which-background-checks-are-done-for-teachers https://www.backgroundchecks.com/blog/which-background-check...
    - zrail 4y ago
      There's a monumental difference between a person working for years to secure a job that they know will barely ever pay a living wage so they can help educate kids and a person applying for a license to own a tool the express purpose of which is to end lives.
      - car_analogy 4y ago
        You've now switched to a different argument, but okay. You think the state doesn't have just as great an interest in vetting who is allowed to educate and look after children, as in who may own a gun? Do I have to link to the many stories of teachers found abusing students before you will stop pretending to not understand?
        anigbrowl 4y ago
        Your link on background checks is kinda shallow, and while they may not be statutorily mandated it's a fair bet that they are checked informally. Also, teachers are effectively subject to constant ongoing supervisions via school boards, which are statutorily mandated, ubiquitous, and have high levels of parental participation. Your abuse argument seems self-defeating. After all, there are no statutory requirements whatsoever to start a religious ministry, and most religious denominations seem to struggle with abuse and accountability issues. Maybe you should reread the HN guidelines before accusing others of posting in bad faith, and try approaching discussion as conversation instead of combat.
14 4y ago
What does this even mean social media account vetting? Like facebook. Or one of my several anonymous reddit accounts? How will they know what I use for social media?
- daenz 4y ago
  >Knowingly providing false information will be sufficient cause to deny this application and constitutes a crime punishable by fine, imprisonment, or both. https://troopers.ny.gov/system/files/documents/2020/12/ppb-3.pdf https://troopers.ny.gov/system/files/documents/2020/12/ppb-3...
sys_64738 4y ago
Who deems you of proper character from vetting your social media accounts? What is the test for this and how is it not opinionated for the so-called rules being applied?
- codefreeordie 4y ago
- verdverm 4y ago
  what if you don't have any social media accounts?
  - sys_64738 4y ago
    That would make you standout from the crowd and would become a person of interest. What are you hiding?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
panny 4y ago
Sounds like a Chinese social credit system.
- Markoff 4y ago
  You can still use cash, just wait a little bit.
TowerTall 4y ago
Meanwhile in Japan. To legally get a gun you must: 1. Join a hunting or shooting club. 2. Take a firearm class and pass a written exam, which is held up to three times a year. 3. Get a doctor’s note saying you are mentally fit and do not have a history of drug abuse. 4. Apply for a permit to take firing training, which may take up to a month. 5. Describe in a police interview why you need a gun. 6. Pass a review of your criminal history, gun possession record, employment, involvement with organized crime groups, personal debt and relationships with friends, family and neighbors. 7. Apply for a gunpowder permit. 8. Take a one-day training class and pass a firing test. 9. Obtain a certificate from a gun dealer describing the gun you want. 10. Buy a gun safe and an ammunition locker that meet safety regulations. 11. Allow the police to inspect your gun storage. 12. Pass an additional background review. 13. Buy a gun. source: https://www.fastcompany.com/90162749/its-absurdly-easy-to-buy-a-gun-in-america https://www.fastcompany.com/90162749/its-absurdly-easy-to-bu...
- daenz 4y ago
  Whether or not you think people should have guns is a separate issue from using social media vetting to prevent people from exercising constitutionally-protected rights. If they tried to do this with voting, would you compare with other countries where it's still harder to vote?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
yongjik 4y ago
timcash 4y ago
Turns out privacy is important.

29 points by daenz 4y ago

Bill S51001 https://legislation.nysenate.gov/pdf/bills/2021/S51001 https://legislation.nysenate.gov/pdf/bills/2021/S51001

Pakdef 4y ago

anigbrowl 4y ago

Some of the proposed changes seem reasonable, like checking for lack of convictions and completion of firearms safety training. The social media requirement is poorly defined and the phrase which immediately springs to mind is 'void for vagueness.'

KennyBlanken 4y ago
People really need to understand that "bill filed" or "amendment filed" doesn't mean much, especially if it's just filed and not debated or voted on. Getting outraged over this sort of thing is silly because like you said, it'll never make it. Outlandish bills and amendments are filed all the time to let somebody say "see, I tried!" to their constituency a lobbyist. Or to give someone something to offer to drop in negotiation, or the other side something to object to and get as a concession ("see, those evil liberals wanted you to have to submit your facebook account!") This is all a big, carefully choreographed dance put on by the majority and minority leaders. The more junior the rep, the more likely whatever they're doing is directly whatever the party leadership wanted them to do, because they're desperate to get more power and influence. If they play along and they get better committee appointments, promises to give them actions they can take back to their district, pork, support in the next election...
- daenz 4y ago
  >Getting outraged over this sort of thing is silly because like you said, it'll never make it. It was signed into law by Governor Hochul yesterday.[0] 0. https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-hochul-signs-landmark-legislation-strengthen-gun-laws-and-bolster-restrictions https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-hochul-signs-landm...
  - anigbrowl 4y ago
    Indeed - perhaps calling it a bill rather than a law in the headline caused people to assume it was inconsequential. I was looking ahead to likely challenges in court.
    - daenz 4y ago
      That's fair. To be honest, I didn't realize the bill was signed into law when I made the thread.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

chitowneats 4y ago

So if I genuinely don't use social media I wouldn't be able to own a gun in New York?

gruez 4y ago
hacker news probably counts as "social media" ;)
- chitowneats 4y ago
  They'd deny me in a heartbeat based on this account.
  - timapplesauce 4y ago
    I think that's the point. The idea is to come up with every reason to deny people. It's a backdoor handgun ban unless you're wealthy and well connected enough to deserve one.
    - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
      If I were wealthy enough to pay my way in I'd be really ticked off at all the other requirements.
      - MonkeyMalarky 4y ago
        Start farming a bunch of aggressively mundane and neutral accounts now. They'll be worth something in 3 years!

casual8afan 4y ago

The NY legislature just wants to be slapped down by the SCOTUS again… There needs to be some type of blowback for this government waste.

car_analogy 4y ago

zrail 4y ago
Teachers are already subject to fairly stringent background checks before they are allowed to teach.
- car_analogy 4y ago
  Including social media account vetting? Because [1] doesn't mention it, and there's a monumental difference between a criminal history check, and forcing one to deanonymize all of one's 1st Amendment protected speech from the past 3 years. [1] https://www.backgroundchecks.com/blog/which-background-checks-are-done-for-teachers https://www.backgroundchecks.com/blog/which-background-check...
  - zrail 4y ago
    There's a monumental difference between a person working for years to secure a job that they know will barely ever pay a living wage so they can help educate kids and a person applying for a license to own a tool the express purpose of which is to end lives.
    - car_analogy 4y ago
      You've now switched to a different argument, but okay. You think the state doesn't have just as great an interest in vetting who is allowed to educate and look after children, as in who may own a gun? Do I have to link to the many stories of teachers found abusing students before you will stop pretending to not understand?
      - anigbrowl 4y ago
        Your link on background checks is kinda shallow, and while they may not be statutorily mandated it's a fair bet that they are checked informally. Also, teachers are effectively subject to constant ongoing supervisions via school boards, which are statutorily mandated, ubiquitous, and have high levels of parental participation. Your abuse argument seems self-defeating. After all, there are no statutory requirements whatsoever to start a religious ministry, and most religious denominations seem to struggle with abuse and accountability issues. Maybe you should reread the HN guidelines before accusing others of posting in bad faith, and try approaching discussion as conversation instead of combat.

14 4y ago

What does this even mean social media account vetting? Like facebook. Or one of my several anonymous reddit accounts? How will they know what I use for social media?

daenz 4y ago
>Knowingly providing false information will be sufficient cause to deny this application and constitutes a crime punishable by fine, imprisonment, or both. https://troopers.ny.gov/system/files/documents/2020/12/ppb-3.pdf https://troopers.ny.gov/system/files/documents/2020/12/ppb-3...

sys_64738 4y ago

Who deems you of proper character from vetting your social media accounts? What is the test for this and how is it not opinionated for the so-called rules being applied?

codefreeordie 4y ago
verdverm 4y ago
what if you don't have any social media accounts?
- sys_64738 4y ago
  That would make you standout from the crowd and would become a person of interest. What are you hiding?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

panny 4y ago

Sounds like a Chinese social credit system.

Markoff 4y ago
You can still use cash, just wait a little bit.

TowerTall 4y ago

Meanwhile in Japan. To legally get a gun you must: 1. Join a hunting or shooting club. 2. Take a firearm class and pass a written exam, which is held up to three times a year. 3. Get a doctor’s note saying you are mentally fit and do not have a history of drug abuse. 4. Apply for a permit to take firing training, which may take up to a month. 5. Describe in a police interview why you need a gun. 6. Pass a review of your criminal history, gun possession record, employment, involvement with organized crime groups, personal debt and relationships with friends, family and neighbors. 7. Apply for a gunpowder permit. 8. Take a one-day training class and pass a firing test. 9. Obtain a certificate from a gun dealer describing the gun you want. 10. Buy a gun safe and an ammunition locker that meet safety regulations. 11. Allow the police to inspect your gun storage. 12. Pass an additional background review. 13. Buy a gun. source: https://www.fastcompany.com/90162749/its-absurdly-easy-to-buy-a-gun-in-america https://www.fastcompany.com/90162749/its-absurdly-easy-to-bu...

daenz 4y ago
Whether or not you think people should have guns is a separate issue from using social media vetting to prevent people from exercising constitutionally-protected rights. If they tried to do this with voting, would you compare with other countries where it's still harder to vote?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

yongjik 4y ago

timcash 4y ago

Turns out privacy is important.