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I used to believe this kind of advice. However, I’ve actually spent quite a bit of time working on myself and coming to peace with my life as it is. I think th

I used to believe this kind of advice. However, I’ve actually spent quite a bit of time working on myself and coming to peace with my life as it is. I think the everything will follow piece is a spiritual bypass that isn’t reflected in reality. There are so many confident, beautiful , career-driven women who are in the same predicament as me. I think that women are learning to take charge in every aspect of their lives. Why not relationships. When I’m building my startup, no one says, sit back, be confident and the startup will grow itself. Why shouldn’t it be that I can have a strategic goal in my life to have kids and a family and work towards achieving that in an active, not passive way ?

norwalkbear 4y ago
Yea you are going to be need to be very strategic since the dating pool is so tiny for your age and family desires. Alot of men who wanted families don't want career women, or already have their own family.My brother is 35 with three kids oldest is 10. My other brother is 52 year old banker who married a 34 year old woman, and they have several kids now. I think your desire for someone of equal education or financial background will make it nearly impossible.
- actfrench 4y ago
  Yikes!
marrgTA 4y ago
Throwaway, because I'm going to say things that may not be all that kosher, but you asked for honest feedback, so here. Additionally, you're asking some very nerdy nerds this advice on a Saturday of a long weekend. The population sample here is biased as hell. Also, lets face it, men are pigs. And without a picture of you, we're all just guessing as to real reasons why. And, no, that doesn't mean I want a pic of you, please don't do that, please keep your privacy on HN. No pics. Ok, that all said: > I think that women are learning to take charge in every aspect of their lives. Why not relationships? Men, bad as it is, don't want superwoman. Especially the men you're looking for in Austin. They want to take care of their woman and their families. I've read a few of your comments on here, but not all. And you come off as driven and very very smart. It's awesome. That's generally a good thing, but likely not here based on your self reported failure. Partnerships, sure. That's great. But men want to be men. And that mean the 3 P's: Provider, Protector, Procreator. If you have all three, you can be a 'real man' and participate in the great game of male honor. If you have only two Ps, you better be really good at them. If you only have one, you're not a real man and can't participate in male honor groups. Yeah, yeah, caveats all over the place. But, generally, you gotta have the three P's to be a 'real man'. That you are a founder and a kick-ass, take-names, kinda gal is great. But it takes away the P of Provider part of being a man. Doing some real bad projection here, you likely make more than him, or will soon if all goes to plan. That means, to him, you're prospectively taking away some part of his manhood and honor. Also, he's likely reading into the reality that there just isn't a lot of time for another person in your life outside of your business. We all read here on HN how hard founder life is and how much of a time suck it is. This one is less of an issue, maybe, I dunno. You mention crossfit and the like. That's awesome, you're doing a great job of working on your health and fitness. Keep doing that. But, depending on how big and fit you are, that takes away the P of Protector. He's not the person that can protect his family from the wolves at the cabin door. You both may be. That's awesome when wolves actually are at the cabin door. But he's trying to imagine his future with you, fantasize about what may be. Sharing that role of Protector may not be what he wants to fantasize about. The last one is maybe the biggest issue and unfortunately the least changeable. The role of Procreator. You're 41. I'm not going to lie to you, the stats on procreation at as advanced maternal age as yourself are not the worst, but they are not the best either. Geriatric pregnancies like the one you are aiming to have come with a lot of risks and side effects on the child. That's pretty common knowledge. Men that you are looking for are aware that having children with you is a more risky proposition than with the, to borrow a baseball term, average replacement. Meaning that, clone you exactly but 10 years younger, it's less risk to go with the younger clone in terms of child health. I know, that's really pretty brutal. I'm sorry, it's fucking bullshit. But by being older than younger-clone-you, you essentially lessen the third P of Procreator. So, what to do then? Like I said, you have to have all three to be a real man, or be really good at at least two. I feel that you're pretty dead set on the Procreator role for your man. That's totally cool. I have kids too. They are awesome, more people should have them. They filled a hole in me that I wasn't aware that I had. But with your age, understand that means he's going to count that one as a 'less' role for himself. You need to build him up on the other two. So for the Provider one, you kinda gotta aim for men that make more than you, are otherwise really good at hunting/fishing/outdoors stuff and take that really seriously, or are really good at scrapping, knowing the right people, grifting, etc. He's gotta feel like he's able to Provide for you, that you depend only on him for your future and your financial security. Because the P of Procreator is lessened, you have to heighten this one. Being a kick-ass start-up founder, yeah, this is going to be a tough one for you to navigate. Honestly, I'd go for the outdoorsy types as the financial stuff is going to be messy. You can kinda let this P be a 'less' overall, but not as much as the Procreator one. So, for the Protector one, as I said at the start, you gotta drop the handkerchief. I think this is the one you can have the most success with. Be more of a damsel in distress for him. Yeah, I know, it's not the most modern-orthodox idea. But you need to build these men up as being able to take the role of Protector as the main role for them in the realtionship. You have to make him feel really truly huge as a Protector for you. Aim for the bulkier gym rat guys, maybe veterans or active duty men that can 'Provide/r' a really good healthcare and retirement plan, and again the outdoorsy hunters with lot of guns. You're in Austin, there are a lot of gun start-ups there, take advantage of that. Talk up how unsafe you feel about town, how your ex was abusive or something, how you really like a guy that can take care of you in a fight. Strange as it sounds, be easily startled. In short, drop the handkerchief. I think it's your best bet. Best of luck! I hope all goes well and I look forward to seeing a post on here from you about how it all turned out great! You got this girl!
- actfrench 4y ago
  Thank you for your kind and encouraging post! I’d be curious to hear from men here if they identify with this and feel un attracted to a woman providing for herself. Many thanks again for your thoughts and being positive and affirming .
  - rafaelero 4y ago
    Maybe as a gay man my advice doesn't fit here, but that is not my experience at all. Gay couples work nicely even if they both earn similar income and there is no "provider".
  - whitepaint 4y ago
    Dated women who were way more successful than me. Wasn't a problem at all. It'd only be a problem if a guy has no confidence. Personally, I think you just need to give up (that's what I did) and just learn to be okay with the things the way they are now. It either will happen or not. You just cannot force these things. Also (probably not such a great advice) but maybe you just need to go to a bar and meet a guy who is a little bit of an asshole..?
  - bigmealbigmeal 4y ago
    I can’t relate to this “three Ps” thing at all. I just want a partner who is deep thinking (most important), reasonably kind, and reasonably good looking. I couldn’t give two shits about some weird notion of being a provider or a protector. Income, strength? It doesn’t come into the equation for me. But then, I also don’t have a strong need to be a procreator. I have no success dating due to my own seemingly excessive standards (almost impossible to find deep thinkers) so I can’t give any advice on that front. But you shouldn’t rule out being a single mother, because I suspect you’d regret that once it’s no longer possible.
  - etamatem 4y ago
    I find women who cannot provide for themselves unattractive. I was brought up by 2 working parents and all my siblings are working professionals; I expect my partner to "pull her weight". Damsel's in distress are a huge turn-off for me,and having that imbalance feels icky and transactional on some level - to me. But I know men who exclusively date women with lower academic qualifications than them, because they want that income gradient/clear pecking-order.
thrown_22 4y ago
- actfrench 4y ago
  - thrown_22 4y ago
adamfaliq 4y ago
You can be strategic about it. But the outcome of 'getting a partner' is not within anyone's control. You can only present the best version of yourself, but you can't control who will and won't like you. We're only humans after all.
- actfrench 4y ago
  So true.
- mandeepj 4y ago
  > You can only present the best version of yourself, but you can't control who will and won't like you if you want to listen to that advice - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1WiCGq-PcY&t=1s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1WiCGq-PcY&t=1s
  - actfrench 4y ago
    Thanks for sharing this video with Bryan Cranston. Funnily enough, I started my career as an actor before moving into entrepreneurship and eventually tech. What rings true for me in this, is keeping your eye on what's most important to you, in my case, giving and receiving love, giving and receiving support and letting go of the outcome. One of the benefits of dating a lot of people is you really do stop caring if the people like you or not, and let go of the outcome. I've found that since I've adopted that approach, 90-95% of men asking me on a second date. I'm not looking to them to validate me or fill a whole on my heart. But dating a lot of people really helps with this. You learn some people like you and you don't feel it's a fit. You like some people and they don't feel it's a fit. Every now and then you get the magic combination. It's rare, but it can happen.
- actfrench 4y ago
  I completely agree.
jcrben 4y ago
All this talk about men being threatened by your career - eh, I really can't relate. I wouldn't focus or worry about that. I'd just recommend working to accept older male features: balding, dad bod, maybe not too tall, etc. Have you read the story of Chris McKinlay hacking Okcupid? https://www.wired.com/2014/01/how-to-hack-okcupid/ https://www.wired.com/2014/01/how-to-hack-okcupid/ Your post could be a personals ad of sorts but you stopped short of inviting readers to reach out directly and inquire about a date
- actfrench 4y ago
  Maybe that’s the best idea yet :) and actually it looks like some dates might even come out of this post unexpectedly!!
  - aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
    Go where your target market is, startup 101.
telchior 4y ago
I'm not sure if I'm reading the previous comment and this one correctly, but it sounds like you're up front with your dates about what you want -- the monogamy, kids, etc. And that could work well, but... it also might not. It creates a feeling of pressure, which I'll try to explain: Some time back, I was set up for a date with an absolutely amazing woman. She was attractive, fit, wealthy, worked as a CTO in a very successful and growing startup. I think she was on one of those Forbes lists. Also, out of my league, but she didn't seem to think so. Anyway, we had a date, it went fine, and then she told me about her bucket list, all the cool ideas she'd had. Well, she'd already crossed off everything except "find a guy to have kids with". It was kind of a clever little way to drop what she wanted into conversation, and I thought she carried everything off with confidence and aplomb. She also let me know that she'd go out with me again. I didn't ask for a second date. I still think about why from time to time. Nothing about her was wrong for my tastes -- all the success, intelligence, confidence, etc is attractive to me -- so why not carry on a bit further? The conclusion I came to was: I just felt like I'd be wasting her time. She told me exactly what she wanted, but I didn't have the same certainty. I didn't feel like I was a good inclusion to the plans of someone so focused and certain of her goals. She was also short on time to go ahead and get a family set up; what if I dated her for two, or four, or six months then decided that we weren't a perfect match? I'd feel guilty as hell, because I burned some extremely valuable time. So: better to bow out. Anyway, that's all a long anecdote with no specific point or lesson, and unfortunately I don't know how it could have gone better for her. Your description of yourself just reminded me of that story, so I thought it might be of interest to hear a retrospective from "one of those guys".
- throwaway0223 4y ago
  100x this. Unless the OP finds someone with an equal drive to build a family and have kids now, 9 out of 10 guys will simply bail out before even trying. No one wants the risk of realizing later that you wasted OP's precious time, so better to not even try.
- mib32 4y ago
  Maybe we, men, really better want to impregnate woman sort of surprisingly.
throwaway743 4y ago
Lol relationships shouldn't be looked at as "achievements" or something to put on a resume or require "work"/labor, at least good relationships. Going that route is gonna lead to many things lacking. I mean go ahead with your plan, but if that's been your "strategy" for however long and you're still single and without the trophy kids, you're "strategy" is severely flawed and obviously not working.
- actfrench 4y ago
  I certainly don't see a relationship or kids as an achievement or something to put on my resumé. Anyone who knows me knows how deeply I love my friends and want to share that love with an intimate partner. Anyone who knows me knows how much I care for children and would love to have my own to love. Why does this translate as an achievement for a resumé rather than a heart longing?
  - throwaway743 4y ago
    Because it totally does sound like that. I mean your choice of words like "taking charge", being "strategic" about it, and then comparing it to building a startup. It sounds like you're treating it as something to calculate, work for, and acquire. Like do you want a cyborg, a prop, or a human being? Just imagine that wording being on a dating profile. Yeah, you'd get some responses and sure, maybe it works out, but upon reading that I'd put money down and bet that it'd scare away a huge number of potential winners (min 30% compared to better wording). It's because it sounds too robotic, calculated, blueprint-like, and signals up-tight, controlling, another job to work at after coming home from their day job. The opposite is needed. Guys get scared off when they hear things like that. It has nothing to do with a strong and empowered woman. It's got everything to do with affecting their freedom to be themselves, hang with their boys, and just not feel like they'd be put on a leash and treated like a prop. Guys, typically speaking, just want to be bros with whoever, regardless of gender, and just chill and not worry about being constrained. Do what you want, but at least don't go by the advice you want to hear here. Go by what you need to hear here.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
mathattack 4y ago
*When I’m building my startup, no one says, sit back, be confident and the startup will grow itself* Maybe it’s because someone else’s feelings are involved too? And they may not want to be a pawn in your plan?
- claydolatry 4y ago
  The idea that partners are not a means to an end is the last bitter pill to swallow before learning to love yourself.
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    Most importantly, you can’t love someone else until you love yourself.
rich_sasha 4y ago
I have no idea if the following applies to you, so I won't even suggest it might. I'll just share some anecdata. I'm male, married, with two beautiful, clever children and a beautiful, clever wife. The wife has a rich list of ambitions and expectations from life, more and more as time goes on. Model 21st century woman really. She's killing it at work, learning new sports, lifting weights, networking, recently joined a government expert panel, really nailing it. The one thing she doesn't have time for is me. I'm just there, right? But between work, always keeping an eye for new, better jobs, taking the kids to ever more elaborate activities, I'm the washing machine of the relationship: it's essential that it's there, if it makes a funny noise you better fix it, but when it's just fine you don't think about it for 2 mins. She also doesn't seem to even acknowledge that there is a tradeoff made. Tbh, and my wife isn't on HN, if not for the kids, I'd be well gone by now. For the kids, and the kids alone, I feel at least for now it's worth sticking to it. So, long intro done, I'd now be very, very wary of people who have long and detailed expectations of life. It's not like I'm unambitious, underachieving or slouching on the sofa. But my expectations of life is more like, strive to be happy and do interesting, meaningful things. A career for the sake of career, for example, isn't on it. The thing is, we are bombarded left right and centre (and women perhaps more so) with propaganda that this is the only way. If you're not aiming for a top career, doing 2 sports, yoga, learning Mandarin, focusing on yourself, oh and don't forget mindfulness, then you're cave-dwelling troglodyte. Thing is, that might just not leave space for an actual relationship, or at least sound that way. I've heard this attitude labelled in certain circles as "men being afraid/threatened by modern women", but it's not that. It's about finding someone who want to genuinely make space for another person in their life, give something and get something. That is at odds with the widely acclaimed approach that life is there to take take take from.
- aliswe 4y ago
  Live life with no regrets my friend. Also, what do you think your kids would have you do, were they grownups? Also, maybe your wife needs the reality check?
  - rich_sasha 4y ago
    I love my kids without bounds, they are best served by two parents right now. The logistics of separated parent childcare, for now, outweigh the daily dredge of being a washing machine. As for later, who knows. Somewhere between the age of 0 and 30, you don't need your parents to hold your hand when you have a nightmare, when that time comes I'll think again.
horns4lyfe 4y ago
Because building a startup is unfortunately an entirely different endeavor from finding a mate. Otherwise successful entrepreneurs would always have happy home lives, and we all know that’s not the case.
lurquer 4y ago
> Why shouldn’t it be that I can have a strategic goal in my life to have kids and a family and work towards achieving that in an active, not passive way ? How’s that working out for you?
- actfrench 4y ago
  As desperate and defeated as my post does sound, actually rather well. When I stopped sitting in my room complaining about friends about how I was single, I started getting on dating apps. I enjoyed some lovely kisses, a few intimate moments and eventually met my first boyfriend. I haven't met my husband yet, but I've definitely experienced that I'm living IN the world and moving closer to what I want instead of staying frozen and feeling a victim of circumstance. If I didn't have hope, I would never have posted something so personal in such a public format. And I've actually gotten a lot of great advice! That is being strategic. Part of being strategic is seeking feedback. Furthermore, I've learned from dating what I'm seeking is rare. And I've gotten greater clarity on what I want. That was a huge learning, and it came from seeking feedback. I've learned I'm desirable and that's improved my self-confidence. That came from finding an accountability partner and actually going on dates. I've learned that a happy marriage is hard to find and it might take a lot of work. And that's given me inspiration. That's come from being strategic. I've learned that to get better matches on dating apps, you need great photos. That's strategy. I believe that knowledge is power. Women can have power over their lives and don't need to sit in their rooms and wait for prince charming to ride up on his horse. Men are extremely strategic in how they date. Many treat it like a sales funnel. I don't agree about thinking about love like sales. But I do think it's good to reflect and improve your strategy to find what you want. And I think in this case, what I want is a good thing. And something it's OK to long for. Not something, as some in this channel would suggest, is an "ulterior motive" or "makes me appear needy" or in some way suggests that I view men as a commodity to bear my "trophy kids." If men are strategic about dating, why shouldn't women do the same?
  - lurquer 4y ago
    You seem very smart and thoughtful. As you’ve asked for opinions, I’ll give you mine… the thing I’ve noticed missing in your posts in this thread (and if I missed it, forgive me) is mention of love. Instead, you seem quite and transactional and check-list oriented. Has there not been a man you’ve met for whom you’ve simply fallen head over heels in love? A man that suddenly makes all your strategic-thinking utterly irrelevant? I have no tips for how to find such a guy. But, I would bet that IF you find your soulmate, it will come out of the blue and, perhaps, he’ll meet very very few of your criteria. And, you won’t care in the slightest as you will have found in him a host of qualities that you suddenly realize you can’t live without. Good luck. Practical advice? Stay off the apps… I’ll risk the downvotes by saying the obvious: you don’t want the kind of guy who uses dating apps. You want the kind of guy you bump into in person, walking the dog. In short, find a guy your attracted to, and flirt. It’s your superpower as a woman: regrettably, most women seem to have no idea how much control they have in finding a mate. Your last line about men being strategic in dating is wrong. We are not. Instead, most men are just waiting and hoping and praying that a woman will smile at them and start a flirtatious conversation. *edit*I don’t think I was clear. Your problem isn’t getting dates… I get that. You probably know how to flirt quite well. I guess what I’m saying is that once you have the guy, make it romantic. Your superpower (more downvotes incoming) is your ability (and most women’s ability) to make a guy do whatever you want. Hell, many guys are dead-set against getting married… until I woman gets them to completely change their mind. It’s cliche in fact. You don’t need to find a guy who wants kids, in other words; you need only find a guy who wants to make you happy. Once you find that guy, you’re set— his pre-you opinions, goals, dreams, and sometimes even religion, is irrelevant at that point… we’re quite malleable, you know, and not nearly as set in our ways or strategic as you might think.

norwalkbear 4y ago

Yea you are going to be need to be very strategic since the dating pool is so tiny for your age and family desires. Alot of men who wanted families don't want career women, or already have their own family.My brother is 35 with three kids oldest is 10. My other brother is 52 year old banker who married a 34 year old woman, and they have several kids now. I think your desire for someone of equal education or financial background will make it nearly impossible.

actfrench 4y ago
Yikes!

marrgTA 4y ago

Throwaway, because I'm going to say things that may not be all that kosher, but you asked for honest feedback, so here. Additionally, you're asking some very nerdy nerds this advice on a Saturday of a long weekend. The population sample here is biased as hell. Also, lets face it, men are pigs. And without a picture of you, we're all just guessing as to real reasons why. And, no, that doesn't mean I want a pic of you, please don't do that, please keep your privacy on HN. No pics. Ok, that all said: > I think that women are learning to take charge in every aspect of their lives. Why not relationships? Men, bad as it is, don't want superwoman. Especially the men you're looking for in Austin. They want to take care of their woman and their families. I've read a few of your comments on here, but not all. And you come off as driven and very very smart. It's awesome. That's generally a good thing, but likely not here based on your self reported failure. Partnerships, sure. That's great. But men want to be men. And that mean the 3 P's: Provider, Protector, Procreator. If you have all three, you can be a 'real man' and participate in the great game of male honor. If you have only two Ps, you better be really good at them. If you only have one, you're not a real man and can't participate in male honor groups. Yeah, yeah, caveats all over the place. But, generally, you gotta have the three P's to be a 'real man'. That you are a founder and a kick-ass, take-names, kinda gal is great. But it takes away the P of Provider part of being a man. Doing some real bad projection here, you likely make more than him, or will soon if all goes to plan. That means, to him, you're prospectively taking away some part of his manhood and honor. Also, he's likely reading into the reality that there just isn't a lot of time for another person in your life outside of your business. We all read here on HN how hard founder life is and how much of a time suck it is. This one is less of an issue, maybe, I dunno. You mention crossfit and the like. That's awesome, you're doing a great job of working on your health and fitness. Keep doing that. But, depending on how big and fit you are, that takes away the P of Protector. He's not the person that can protect his family from the wolves at the cabin door. You both may be. That's awesome when wolves actually are at the cabin door. But he's trying to imagine his future with you, fantasize about what may be. Sharing that role of Protector may not be what he wants to fantasize about. The last one is maybe the biggest issue and unfortunately the least changeable. The role of Procreator. You're 41. I'm not going to lie to you, the stats on procreation at as advanced maternal age as yourself are not the worst, but they are not the best either. Geriatric pregnancies like the one you are aiming to have come with a lot of risks and side effects on the child. That's pretty common knowledge. Men that you are looking for are aware that having children with you is a more risky proposition than with the, to borrow a baseball term, average replacement. Meaning that, clone you exactly but 10 years younger, it's less risk to go with the younger clone in terms of child health. I know, that's really pretty brutal. I'm sorry, it's fucking bullshit. But by being older than younger-clone-you, you essentially lessen the third P of Procreator. So, what to do then? Like I said, you have to have all three to be a real man, or be really good at at least two. I feel that you're pretty dead set on the Procreator role for your man. That's totally cool. I have kids too. They are awesome, more people should have them. They filled a hole in me that I wasn't aware that I had. But with your age, understand that means he's going to count that one as a 'less' role for himself. You need to build him up on the other two. So for the Provider one, you kinda gotta aim for men that make more than you, are otherwise really good at hunting/fishing/outdoors stuff and take that really seriously, or are really good at scrapping, knowing the right people, grifting, etc. He's gotta feel like he's able to Provide for you, that you depend only on him for your future and your financial security. Because the P of Procreator is lessened, you have to heighten this one. Being a kick-ass start-up founder, yeah, this is going to be a tough one for you to navigate. Honestly, I'd go for the outdoorsy types as the financial stuff is going to be messy. You can kinda let this P be a 'less' overall, but not as much as the Procreator one. So, for the Protector one, as I said at the start, you gotta drop the handkerchief. I think this is the one you can have the most success with. Be more of a damsel in distress for him. Yeah, I know, it's not the most modern-orthodox idea. But you need to build these men up as being able to take the role of Protector as the main role for them in the realtionship. You have to make him feel really truly huge as a Protector for you. Aim for the bulkier gym rat guys, maybe veterans or active duty men that can 'Provide/r' a really good healthcare and retirement plan, and again the outdoorsy hunters with lot of guns. You're in Austin, there are a lot of gun start-ups there, take advantage of that. Talk up how unsafe you feel about town, how your ex was abusive or something, how you really like a guy that can take care of you in a fight. Strange as it sounds, be easily startled. In short, drop the handkerchief. I think it's your best bet. Best of luck! I hope all goes well and I look forward to seeing a post on here from you about how it all turned out great! You got this girl!

actfrench 4y ago
Thank you for your kind and encouraging post! I’d be curious to hear from men here if they identify with this and feel un attracted to a woman providing for herself. Many thanks again for your thoughts and being positive and affirming .
- rafaelero 4y ago
  Maybe as a gay man my advice doesn't fit here, but that is not my experience at all. Gay couples work nicely even if they both earn similar income and there is no "provider".
- whitepaint 4y ago
  Dated women who were way more successful than me. Wasn't a problem at all. It'd only be a problem if a guy has no confidence. Personally, I think you just need to give up (that's what I did) and just learn to be okay with the things the way they are now. It either will happen or not. You just cannot force these things. Also (probably not such a great advice) but maybe you just need to go to a bar and meet a guy who is a little bit of an asshole..?
- bigmealbigmeal 4y ago
  I can’t relate to this “three Ps” thing at all. I just want a partner who is deep thinking (most important), reasonably kind, and reasonably good looking. I couldn’t give two shits about some weird notion of being a provider or a protector. Income, strength? It doesn’t come into the equation for me. But then, I also don’t have a strong need to be a procreator. I have no success dating due to my own seemingly excessive standards (almost impossible to find deep thinkers) so I can’t give any advice on that front. But you shouldn’t rule out being a single mother, because I suspect you’d regret that once it’s no longer possible.
- etamatem 4y ago
  I find women who cannot provide for themselves unattractive. I was brought up by 2 working parents and all my siblings are working professionals; I expect my partner to "pull her weight". Damsel's in distress are a huge turn-off for me,and having that imbalance feels icky and transactional on some level - to me. But I know men who exclusively date women with lower academic qualifications than them, because they want that income gradient/clear pecking-order.

thrown_22 4y ago

actfrench 4y ago
- thrown_22 4y ago

adamfaliq 4y ago

You can be strategic about it. But the outcome of 'getting a partner' is not within anyone's control. You can only present the best version of yourself, but you can't control who will and won't like you. We're only humans after all.

actfrench 4y ago
So true.
mandeepj 4y ago
> You can only present the best version of yourself, but you can't control who will and won't like you if you want to listen to that advice - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1WiCGq-PcY&t=1s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1WiCGq-PcY&t=1s
- actfrench 4y ago
  Thanks for sharing this video with Bryan Cranston. Funnily enough, I started my career as an actor before moving into entrepreneurship and eventually tech. What rings true for me in this, is keeping your eye on what's most important to you, in my case, giving and receiving love, giving and receiving support and letting go of the outcome. One of the benefits of dating a lot of people is you really do stop caring if the people like you or not, and let go of the outcome. I've found that since I've adopted that approach, 90-95% of men asking me on a second date. I'm not looking to them to validate me or fill a whole on my heart. But dating a lot of people really helps with this. You learn some people like you and you don't feel it's a fit. You like some people and they don't feel it's a fit. Every now and then you get the magic combination. It's rare, but it can happen.
actfrench 4y ago
I completely agree.

jcrben 4y ago

All this talk about men being threatened by your career - eh, I really can't relate. I wouldn't focus or worry about that. I'd just recommend working to accept older male features: balding, dad bod, maybe not too tall, etc. Have you read the story of Chris McKinlay hacking Okcupid? https://www.wired.com/2014/01/how-to-hack-okcupid/ https://www.wired.com/2014/01/how-to-hack-okcupid/ Your post could be a personals ad of sorts but you stopped short of inviting readers to reach out directly and inquire about a date

actfrench 4y ago
Maybe that’s the best idea yet :) and actually it looks like some dates might even come out of this post unexpectedly!!
- aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
  Go where your target market is, startup 101.

telchior 4y ago

I'm not sure if I'm reading the previous comment and this one correctly, but it sounds like you're up front with your dates about what you want -- the monogamy, kids, etc. And that could work well, but... it also might not. It creates a feeling of pressure, which I'll try to explain: Some time back, I was set up for a date with an absolutely amazing woman. She was attractive, fit, wealthy, worked as a CTO in a very successful and growing startup. I think she was on one of those Forbes lists. Also, out of my league, but she didn't seem to think so. Anyway, we had a date, it went fine, and then she told me about her bucket list, all the cool ideas she'd had. Well, she'd already crossed off everything except "find a guy to have kids with". It was kind of a clever little way to drop what she wanted into conversation, and I thought she carried everything off with confidence and aplomb. She also let me know that she'd go out with me again. I didn't ask for a second date. I still think about why from time to time. Nothing about her was wrong for my tastes -- all the success, intelligence, confidence, etc is attractive to me -- so why not carry on a bit further? The conclusion I came to was: I just felt like I'd be wasting her time. She told me exactly what she wanted, but I didn't have the same certainty. I didn't feel like I was a good inclusion to the plans of someone so focused and certain of her goals. She was also short on time to go ahead and get a family set up; what if I dated her for two, or four, or six months then decided that we weren't a perfect match? I'd feel guilty as hell, because I burned some extremely valuable time. So: better to bow out. Anyway, that's all a long anecdote with no specific point or lesson, and unfortunately I don't know how it could have gone better for her. Your description of yourself just reminded me of that story, so I thought it might be of interest to hear a retrospective from "one of those guys".

throwaway0223 4y ago
100x this. Unless the OP finds someone with an equal drive to build a family and have kids now, 9 out of 10 guys will simply bail out before even trying. No one wants the risk of realizing later that you wasted OP's precious time, so better to not even try.
mib32 4y ago
Maybe we, men, really better want to impregnate woman sort of surprisingly.

throwaway743 4y ago

Lol relationships shouldn't be looked at as "achievements" or something to put on a resume or require "work"/labor, at least good relationships. Going that route is gonna lead to many things lacking. I mean go ahead with your plan, but if that's been your "strategy" for however long and you're still single and without the trophy kids, you're "strategy" is severely flawed and obviously not working.

actfrench 4y ago
I certainly don't see a relationship or kids as an achievement or something to put on my resumé. Anyone who knows me knows how deeply I love my friends and want to share that love with an intimate partner. Anyone who knows me knows how much I care for children and would love to have my own to love. Why does this translate as an achievement for a resumé rather than a heart longing?
- throwaway743 4y ago
  Because it totally does sound like that. I mean your choice of words like "taking charge", being "strategic" about it, and then comparing it to building a startup. It sounds like you're treating it as something to calculate, work for, and acquire. Like do you want a cyborg, a prop, or a human being? Just imagine that wording being on a dating profile. Yeah, you'd get some responses and sure, maybe it works out, but upon reading that I'd put money down and bet that it'd scare away a huge number of potential winners (min 30% compared to better wording). It's because it sounds too robotic, calculated, blueprint-like, and signals up-tight, controlling, another job to work at after coming home from their day job. The opposite is needed. Guys get scared off when they hear things like that. It has nothing to do with a strong and empowered woman. It's got everything to do with affecting their freedom to be themselves, hang with their boys, and just not feel like they'd be put on a leash and treated like a prop. Guys, typically speaking, just want to be bros with whoever, regardless of gender, and just chill and not worry about being constrained. Do what you want, but at least don't go by the advice you want to hear here. Go by what you need to hear here.

deleted 4y ago

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mathattack 4y ago

*When I’m building my startup, no one says, sit back, be confident and the startup will grow itself* Maybe it’s because someone else’s feelings are involved too? And they may not want to be a pawn in your plan?

claydolatry 4y ago
The idea that partners are not a means to an end is the last bitter pill to swallow before learning to love yourself.
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  Most importantly, you can’t love someone else until you love yourself.

rich_sasha 4y ago

I have no idea if the following applies to you, so I won't even suggest it might. I'll just share some anecdata. I'm male, married, with two beautiful, clever children and a beautiful, clever wife. The wife has a rich list of ambitions and expectations from life, more and more as time goes on. Model 21st century woman really. She's killing it at work, learning new sports, lifting weights, networking, recently joined a government expert panel, really nailing it. The one thing she doesn't have time for is me. I'm just there, right? But between work, always keeping an eye for new, better jobs, taking the kids to ever more elaborate activities, I'm the washing machine of the relationship: it's essential that it's there, if it makes a funny noise you better fix it, but when it's just fine you don't think about it for 2 mins. She also doesn't seem to even acknowledge that there is a tradeoff made. Tbh, and my wife isn't on HN, if not for the kids, I'd be well gone by now. For the kids, and the kids alone, I feel at least for now it's worth sticking to it. So, long intro done, I'd now be very, very wary of people who have long and detailed expectations of life. It's not like I'm unambitious, underachieving or slouching on the sofa. But my expectations of life is more like, strive to be happy and do interesting, meaningful things. A career for the sake of career, for example, isn't on it. The thing is, we are bombarded left right and centre (and women perhaps more so) with propaganda that this is the only way. If you're not aiming for a top career, doing 2 sports, yoga, learning Mandarin, focusing on yourself, oh and don't forget mindfulness, then you're cave-dwelling troglodyte. Thing is, that might just not leave space for an actual relationship, or at least sound that way. I've heard this attitude labelled in certain circles as "men being afraid/threatened by modern women", but it's not that. It's about finding someone who want to genuinely make space for another person in their life, give something and get something. That is at odds with the widely acclaimed approach that life is there to take take take from.

aliswe 4y ago
Live life with no regrets my friend. Also, what do you think your kids would have you do, were they grownups? Also, maybe your wife needs the reality check?
- rich_sasha 4y ago
  I love my kids without bounds, they are best served by two parents right now. The logistics of separated parent childcare, for now, outweigh the daily dredge of being a washing machine. As for later, who knows. Somewhere between the age of 0 and 30, you don't need your parents to hold your hand when you have a nightmare, when that time comes I'll think again.

horns4lyfe 4y ago

Because building a startup is unfortunately an entirely different endeavor from finding a mate. Otherwise successful entrepreneurs would always have happy home lives, and we all know that’s not the case.

lurquer 4y ago

> Why shouldn’t it be that I can have a strategic goal in my life to have kids and a family and work towards achieving that in an active, not passive way ? How’s that working out for you?

actfrench 4y ago
As desperate and defeated as my post does sound, actually rather well. When I stopped sitting in my room complaining about friends about how I was single, I started getting on dating apps. I enjoyed some lovely kisses, a few intimate moments and eventually met my first boyfriend. I haven't met my husband yet, but I've definitely experienced that I'm living IN the world and moving closer to what I want instead of staying frozen and feeling a victim of circumstance. If I didn't have hope, I would never have posted something so personal in such a public format. And I've actually gotten a lot of great advice! That is being strategic. Part of being strategic is seeking feedback. Furthermore, I've learned from dating what I'm seeking is rare. And I've gotten greater clarity on what I want. That was a huge learning, and it came from seeking feedback. I've learned I'm desirable and that's improved my self-confidence. That came from finding an accountability partner and actually going on dates. I've learned that a happy marriage is hard to find and it might take a lot of work. And that's given me inspiration. That's come from being strategic. I've learned that to get better matches on dating apps, you need great photos. That's strategy. I believe that knowledge is power. Women can have power over their lives and don't need to sit in their rooms and wait for prince charming to ride up on his horse. Men are extremely strategic in how they date. Many treat it like a sales funnel. I don't agree about thinking about love like sales. But I do think it's good to reflect and improve your strategy to find what you want. And I think in this case, what I want is a good thing. And something it's OK to long for. Not something, as some in this channel would suggest, is an "ulterior motive" or "makes me appear needy" or in some way suggests that I view men as a commodity to bear my "trophy kids." If men are strategic about dating, why shouldn't women do the same?
- lurquer 4y ago
  You seem very smart and thoughtful. As you’ve asked for opinions, I’ll give you mine… the thing I’ve noticed missing in your posts in this thread (and if I missed it, forgive me) is mention of love. Instead, you seem quite and transactional and check-list oriented. Has there not been a man you’ve met for whom you’ve simply fallen head over heels in love? A man that suddenly makes all your strategic-thinking utterly irrelevant? I have no tips for how to find such a guy. But, I would bet that IF you find your soulmate, it will come out of the blue and, perhaps, he’ll meet very very few of your criteria. And, you won’t care in the slightest as you will have found in him a host of qualities that you suddenly realize you can’t live without. Good luck. Practical advice? Stay off the apps… I’ll risk the downvotes by saying the obvious: you don’t want the kind of guy who uses dating apps. You want the kind of guy you bump into in person, walking the dog. In short, find a guy your attracted to, and flirt. It’s your superpower as a woman: regrettably, most women seem to have no idea how much control they have in finding a mate. Your last line about men being strategic in dating is wrong. We are not. Instead, most men are just waiting and hoping and praying that a woman will smile at them and start a flirtatious conversation. *edit*I don’t think I was clear. Your problem isn’t getting dates… I get that. You probably know how to flirt quite well. I guess what I’m saying is that once you have the guy, make it romantic. Your superpower (more downvotes incoming) is your ability (and most women’s ability) to make a guy do whatever you want. Hell, many guys are dead-set against getting married… until I woman gets them to completely change their mind. It’s cliche in fact. You don’t need to find a guy who wants kids, in other words; you need only find a guy who wants to make you happy. Once you find that guy, you’re set— his pre-you opinions, goals, dreams, and sometimes even religion, is irrelevant at that point… we’re quite malleable, you know, and not nearly as set in our ways or strategic as you might think.