3 ms·

What makes you think countries like UAE or Hungary haven't already asked Google for this information?

Raed667 4y ago
I didn't want to turn my comment in a did they already or didn't they debate. The fact that this data COULD be asked for should be enough to stop collecting it.
- shadowgovt 4y ago
  Honestly, Google doesn't have the luxury of that shortcut thinking. It's very "if man were meant to fly he'd have been born with wings" reasoning. The amount of good enabled by data collection far often outweighs the bad. Better to collect, use for benefit, and protect than to just say "This area of technology is forbidden to mankind." Besides, it doesn't solve the problem; countries can do their own data collection without Google.
  - kornhole 4y ago
    Good for whom? It has surely been good for those who are collecting and distilling the data, but we can say the same for those being watched, manipulated, and worse.
    - shadowgovt 4y ago
      Here's a small set of technologies that benefit the end user that are powered by data aggregation: Gmail spam filtering, Maps business data, Maps traffic signal, Google voice recognition (basically the entire technology stack, which was piggybacked off of analysis of samples from Google 411 and continues to be refined by analysis of audio snippets from corner cases where the technology fails), search (obviously, it is just a scraper pointed at the web), Google voice spam number identification (crowdsourced signal), Google Translate, Google image search, and of course the ad products that pay for a not-insignificant portion of the sites available on the internet, without which a significant chunk of the internet would go dark unless it was beholden to other monied interests. Big Data from large user numbers enabled the creation of technologies that had not been possible before at the level of quality that they are now possible. I don't think a lot of people fully wrap their heads around how big data analysis enabled the internet that we know today.
      - kornhole 4y ago
        Agreed that big data aggregation can do quite a bit and aid some features. I work with it myself except in operational rather than personal data. Some benefits accrue to consumers, but most go to the holders of the data. Most if not all of these features you mention are accomplished by other companies without the collection of personal data and the many accompanying problems such as creating this surveillance state. People are making decisions about the products they buy and use based on how they are made and choosing the ethically produced products. If I have a choice in buying something that was produced ethically or not, I almost always buy the one made ethically even if it might cost a little more or be of lower quality.
        shadowgovt 4y ago
        > Most if not all of these features you mention are accomplished by other companies without the collection of personal data and the many accompanying problems such as creating this surveillance state. How many are as good, and how many are boot-strapped or piggybacked off of datasets that started as big data analysis and were eventually published? I'm not personally of the opinion that big data analysis is unethical; I think broadly speaking, it's been win-win. Companies collecting the data obviously benefit, and users also benefit because their data, aggregated with the data of others, enables utility for them that they would not have gotten alone. Was a time we called collective action where people generally benefited a good thing, and novel analysis of available data to draw new conclusions "research," not "unethical."
        kornhole 4y ago
        I have found great alternatives to all of these. They are great to me based on factors I consider important. I did not say that big data analysis is unethical. It is that which relies on surveilling and manipulating people/cyborgs which is unethical. I work on big data that surveils and manipulates robots, but they are not sentient and have no rights.
        shadowgovt 4y ago
  - _aavaa_ 4y ago
    I don't think arguments of the form "If I wasn't doing it someone else would be" are very persuasive. Especially given that in all likelihood Google is much better at it than them.

I didn't want to turn my comment in a did they already or didn't they debate. The fact that this data COULD be asked for should be enough to stop collecting it.

shadowgovt 4y ago
Honestly, Google doesn't have the luxury of that shortcut thinking. It's very "if man were meant to fly he'd have been born with wings" reasoning. The amount of good enabled by data collection far often outweighs the bad. Better to collect, use for benefit, and protect than to just say "This area of technology is forbidden to mankind." Besides, it doesn't solve the problem; countries can do their own data collection without Google.
- kornhole 4y ago
  Good for whom? It has surely been good for those who are collecting and distilling the data, but we can say the same for those being watched, manipulated, and worse.
  - shadowgovt 4y ago
    Here's a small set of technologies that benefit the end user that are powered by data aggregation: Gmail spam filtering, Maps business data, Maps traffic signal, Google voice recognition (basically the entire technology stack, which was piggybacked off of analysis of samples from Google 411 and continues to be refined by analysis of audio snippets from corner cases where the technology fails), search (obviously, it is just a scraper pointed at the web), Google voice spam number identification (crowdsourced signal), Google Translate, Google image search, and of course the ad products that pay for a not-insignificant portion of the sites available on the internet, without which a significant chunk of the internet would go dark unless it was beholden to other monied interests. Big Data from large user numbers enabled the creation of technologies that had not been possible before at the level of quality that they are now possible. I don't think a lot of people fully wrap their heads around how big data analysis enabled the internet that we know today.
    - kornhole 4y ago
      Agreed that big data aggregation can do quite a bit and aid some features. I work with it myself except in operational rather than personal data. Some benefits accrue to consumers, but most go to the holders of the data. Most if not all of these features you mention are accomplished by other companies without the collection of personal data and the many accompanying problems such as creating this surveillance state. People are making decisions about the products they buy and use based on how they are made and choosing the ethically produced products. If I have a choice in buying something that was produced ethically or not, I almost always buy the one made ethically even if it might cost a little more or be of lower quality.
      - shadowgovt 4y ago
        > Most if not all of these features you mention are accomplished by other companies without the collection of personal data and the many accompanying problems such as creating this surveillance state. How many are as good, and how many are boot-strapped or piggybacked off of datasets that started as big data analysis and were eventually published? I'm not personally of the opinion that big data analysis is unethical; I think broadly speaking, it's been win-win. Companies collecting the data obviously benefit, and users also benefit because their data, aggregated with the data of others, enables utility for them that they would not have gotten alone. Was a time we called collective action where people generally benefited a good thing, and novel analysis of available data to draw new conclusions "research," not "unethical."
        kornhole 4y ago
        I have found great alternatives to all of these. They are great to me based on factors I consider important. I did not say that big data analysis is unethical. It is that which relies on surveilling and manipulating people/cyborgs which is unethical. I work on big data that surveils and manipulates robots, but they are not sentient and have no rights.
        shadowgovt 4y ago
- _aavaa_ 4y ago
  I don't think arguments of the form "If I wasn't doing it someone else would be" are very persuasive. Especially given that in all likelihood Google is much better at it than them.