4 ms·

I am not disputing what you're saying about your healthcare system, but if you get hit by a car, I would guess that nobody will be afraid to call an ambulance f

I am not disputing what you're saying about your healthcare system, but if you get hit by a car, I would guess that nobody will be afraid to call an ambulance for fear of the cost. The same cannot be said of the US, where people with emergencies take ubers to the hospital. You might take an uber to the hospital in Sweden too, out of convenience, but not out of fear for being stuck with a $1000 bill.

varispeed 4y ago
> The same cannot be said of the US, where people with emergencies take ubers to the hospital. It's a bit ironic as a couple of months ago I had to call for an ambulance here in the UK when I found someone extremely unwell and they told me I should call an Uber and take that person to A&E myself, because they don't have free ambulances. Then at A&E they had over 3h waiting time for majors. You pay fortune in taxes and you get crap service. Often you have to go privately to see a specialist and you can't deduct that money from your taxes.
- seibelj 4y ago
  The anecdotes from supposedly-superior socialized medical systems in Europe always throw cold water on USA leftist dreams. The left here has been saying it’s a utopia for a fraction of the cost for decades. The reality is so much more complex.
  - _vbnz 4y ago
    I mean, I'm a leftist in the EU, it's just that the system isn't working due to cuts and mismanagement, and unfortunately the "left-wing" parties here are more concerned with identity politics and policies benefiting the lumpen rather than the proletariat (mass immigration, social housing for criminals, etc.). I support universal healthcare, but I think a lot of Americans don't appreciate the benefits they get from the sheer wealth of the USA. Salaries are so much higher, and health insurance covers much more at good companies, etc.
    - seibelj 4y ago
      Europe pays ~10% of GDP to healthcare and you say it isn’t enough money “due to cuts”. USA pays ~20% of GDP and the left says it’s “too much” when compared to Europe. How much would you expect society to pay? Clearly it’s less than 20%, as that’s society being robbed, and more than 10%, as that’s healthcare being cheated. What is the correct percent?
      - nivenkos 4y ago
        I'd rather it be closer to 20% for sure. Healthcare is incredibly important. But tax mismanagement is a huge issue, my home country and my resident country have sent billions of dollars to Ukraine for example whilst we still don't have enough housing, have people going to food banks, etc. Same for accepting tens of millions of refugees and so on.
      - lozenge 4y ago
        Healthcare spending of the UK is at the OECD median and is just 80% of the EU15 median. The UK also has an aging population which means its spending needs to drift upwards over time. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/articles/howdoesukhealthcarespendingcomparewithothercountries/2019-08-29 https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthan...
  - tomtheelder 4y ago
    I mean I could tell almost the exact same anecdote from when I had to have my appendix out in the US. The key difference is that I ended up with a fucking insane bill to pay at the end of all of it. Plus the NHS was better historically. The conservatives have been playing starve the beast with it, and Labor is about as impotent as the Dems are in the US. Either way they still spend less and have better outcomes, so that part at least isn't very complex.
    - seibelj 4y ago
      Is it at-all possible that either 1) it isn’t the conservatives but a larger systemic issue Or 2) healthcare is, like all services, a market-based system where the highest-skilled gravitate towards the private sector, the highest-wealth gravitate to the private sector, and the poor / poorly skilled / the selfless use the socialized system that can never serve the needs of all the people at a below-market cost?
  - Symbiote 4y ago
    I doubt you'll see this, but the anecdote is untrue: an ambulance is free in the UK.
- Symbiote 4y ago
  You have no idea what you're talking about. Ambulances are free in the UK.
jokethrowaway 4y ago
Good luck finding an ambulance in EU You often need to find your own way to the hospital

varispeed 4y ago

> The same cannot be said of the US, where people with emergencies take ubers to the hospital. It's a bit ironic as a couple of months ago I had to call for an ambulance here in the UK when I found someone extremely unwell and they told me I should call an Uber and take that person to A&E myself, because they don't have free ambulances. Then at A&E they had over 3h waiting time for majors. You pay fortune in taxes and you get crap service. Often you have to go privately to see a specialist and you can't deduct that money from your taxes.

seibelj 4y ago
The anecdotes from supposedly-superior socialized medical systems in Europe always throw cold water on USA leftist dreams. The left here has been saying it’s a utopia for a fraction of the cost for decades. The reality is so much more complex.
- _vbnz 4y ago
  I mean, I'm a leftist in the EU, it's just that the system isn't working due to cuts and mismanagement, and unfortunately the "left-wing" parties here are more concerned with identity politics and policies benefiting the lumpen rather than the proletariat (mass immigration, social housing for criminals, etc.). I support universal healthcare, but I think a lot of Americans don't appreciate the benefits they get from the sheer wealth of the USA. Salaries are so much higher, and health insurance covers much more at good companies, etc.
  - seibelj 4y ago
    Europe pays ~10% of GDP to healthcare and you say it isn’t enough money “due to cuts”. USA pays ~20% of GDP and the left says it’s “too much” when compared to Europe. How much would you expect society to pay? Clearly it’s less than 20%, as that’s society being robbed, and more than 10%, as that’s healthcare being cheated. What is the correct percent?
    - nivenkos 4y ago
      I'd rather it be closer to 20% for sure. Healthcare is incredibly important. But tax mismanagement is a huge issue, my home country and my resident country have sent billions of dollars to Ukraine for example whilst we still don't have enough housing, have people going to food banks, etc. Same for accepting tens of millions of refugees and so on.
    - lozenge 4y ago
      Healthcare spending of the UK is at the OECD median and is just 80% of the EU15 median. The UK also has an aging population which means its spending needs to drift upwards over time. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/articles/howdoesukhealthcarespendingcomparewithothercountries/2019-08-29 https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthan...
- tomtheelder 4y ago
  I mean I could tell almost the exact same anecdote from when I had to have my appendix out in the US. The key difference is that I ended up with a fucking insane bill to pay at the end of all of it. Plus the NHS was better historically. The conservatives have been playing starve the beast with it, and Labor is about as impotent as the Dems are in the US. Either way they still spend less and have better outcomes, so that part at least isn't very complex.
  - seibelj 4y ago
    Is it at-all possible that either 1) it isn’t the conservatives but a larger systemic issue Or 2) healthcare is, like all services, a market-based system where the highest-skilled gravitate towards the private sector, the highest-wealth gravitate to the private sector, and the poor / poorly skilled / the selfless use the socialized system that can never serve the needs of all the people at a below-market cost?
- Symbiote 4y ago
  I doubt you'll see this, but the anecdote is untrue: an ambulance is free in the UK.
Symbiote 4y ago
You have no idea what you're talking about. Ambulances are free in the UK.

jokethrowaway 4y ago

Good luck finding an ambulance in EU You often need to find your own way to the hospital